C.N.P Coil Near Plug/ Coil on Plug

[lazaris]

Any news???

 

[lazaris]

Havent heard anthing on this project for months. Doesnt look good.

 

[Nick Micale]

Sorry this is taking longer than anticipated.:frown:

We have been extremely busy with customer's car that are major projects that pay the bills.

We are now doing a complete wiring and XFI install on a low 8 sec. back-half GN that is going to have a COP installed. Along with this is a T-5 turbo so it will be at least a month before it is even running.

One of the current running COP GN's is receiving extensive mods to be 9 sec. legal, and has not been available for further testing.

With the brutal heat here in July and August, there is little desire to do track testing at 100 deg. even at night.

There is no doubt that the COP works on Buicks this has been proven on the Gallina/Freeman 6 sec. GN. Jan Moeller, who is working with me on this is the crew chief on that car and has worked with Kenny on development of this car.:biggrin:

 

[lazaris]

Thats too bad. :frown:
Oh well..........

 

[Jack Armstrong]

Bruce Plecan

I was thinking I might look

into how to do it myself...

Bruce Plecan accomplished the COP conversion

several years before his death, and was constantly busy

advancing GM's initial concept very intensely to ever higher levels.


It's safe to say very few molecules of energy escaped

Bruce Plecan's combustion chambers w/o igniting fully.


Just take the time to find, read & research Bruce

Plecan's amazingly frequent & highly informative posts

on the Buick, DIY-EFI & the EFI-sections of several GM-related

(e.g. F-body, LT-1 & etcetera) messageboards. Bruce Plecan

achieved several advanced stages of COP (beyond simply

adapting a GM LS-style COP to an LC2) & much much more.


Unlike the "data-hoarders", "proprietary-info poseurs"

and the hordes of "stooges with secrets", Bruce Plecan

lived & breathed to stretch the LC2 development envelope,

and shared all his data-rich research & testing results

with equal vigor, determination and generosity with everyone.

 

[John Wilde]

God Bless Bruce, I miss his e-mails.
He will never be replaced...

 

[Blazer406]

Bruce Plecan accomplished the COP conversion

several years before his death, and was constantly busy

advancing GM's initial concept very intensely to ever higher levels.


It's safe to say very few molecules of energy escaped

Bruce Plecan's combustion chambers w/o igniting fully.


Just take the time to find, read & research Bruce

Plecan's amazingly frequent & highly informative posts

on the Buick, DIY-EFI & the EFI-sections of several GM-related

(e.g. F-body, LT-1 & etcetera) messageboards. Bruce Plecan

achieved several advanced stages of COP (beyond simply

adapting a GM LS-style COP to an LC2) & much much more.


Unlike the "data-hoarders", "proprietary-info poseurs"

and the hordes of "stooges with secrets", Bruce Plecan

lived & breathed to stretch the LC2 development envelope,

and shared all his data-rich research & testing results

with equal vigor, determination and generosity with everyone.

I actually chatted with Bruce.... face-to-face at BG several years ago.... his last one he attended.....and we talked about the CNP setup. He started tinkering with it for I believe... MSD.... the DIS setup??.. adapting this to the LC2... and running stock LS1 coils.... There are many posts floating around with information from him on this... if I remember correctly.... his biggest complaint... was the car wouldn't start very quickly.... like it had to spin over so many times before it would fire up...... not real clear if he ever resolved that issue.... I distinctly remember him talking about running like mid to high 20's psi boost with like .060 plug gaps... with absolutely no mis-firing issues.... try that with a CCCI.....

I am still very intrigued by this conversion... I will do mine at some point....

I really miss all his insight on these types of issues..... no one will ever come close to taking his place. God rest his soul.... We miss you Bruce.

 

[Blazer406]

Ttt

Bump for some new info on an aging thread.........

 

[Nick Micale]

Sorry this is taking longer than anticipated.:frown:

We have been extremely busy with customer's car that are major projects that pay the bills.

We are now doing a complete wiring and XFI install on a low 8 sec. back-half GN that is going to have a COP installed. Along with this is a T-5 turbo so it will be at least a month before it is even running.

I was WAY optimistic on my schedule for getting this car running.

With changes, getting parts, sending stuff back to get the RIGHT part, fabricating items, and just the amount of total work on this car has been enormous and very time consuming.

Anyway, it is getting close as most of the wiring is installed and now has to be finalized. Few more special parts still on order, and hope to have it running by Thanksgiving.

 

[SloGN]

well i have thought about doing this with a set of the 300m coils and aring them up to the stock igniton module there still will be a waste spark but the waste spark is contained to 2 coils firing instead of 2 plugs vs one coil firing 2 plugs.


there has been a bunch of guys in the DSM world doing this on the 4g63 motors and firing thru high 30'' psi of boost with moderate plug gaps.


I know that the ls1 coils have there own igniton module in them hence why they are called smart coils but this can be done fairly easy using the stock ignition module.


Nick

how is the firing doen are you just firing 2 coils @ one or have you got a seqencer (edist etc) controling the firng of the coils? not tring to pry just simple wondering of thoughts.

I would think this is only gonna be for the guys that are tring to run insane boost levels and still lighting the plugs off.

The best bang for the buck is to swap over to the delco II igniton it already has a hotter spark than the magnavox igniton.

 

[Buzzard]

The coils are fired sequential using the Fast XIM.

 

[GARY HARVEY]

Has this puppy flushed or What?

Almost a year and nothing new to report, sad that this project has withered on the vine...

 

[John Wilde]

Almost a year and nothing new to report, sad that this project has withered on the vine...

Gary,

There are at least two other vendors considering/working on this type of project. Mike/FullThrottle had posted something about this.
I am not sure if the other vendor has said anything publicly.

 

[Nick Micale]

After blowing 2 expensive engines, one at the track, other on the dyno, we went with only distributors.

The "word" from the person doing this was after checking with the tech people at FAST is that it will not "support" COP on a V-6. Apparently, there is some issue at higher RPM?

Since I am not a "tuner", I rely on those that are supposed to be for this type of work.

The Motec does work with COP, and I "heard" that Big Stuff III will also, but do not know anyone running it.

 

[JayC]

Theres a more or less direct replacement COP setup in the works. Mike @ Full Throttle has mentioned it a few times. I have one of Bob's prototype COP setups at the shop, it works but the production unit will have more features and work a little differently.

 

[S2V6RACER]

After blowing 2 expensive engines, one at the track, other on the dyno, we went with only distributors.

The "word" from the person doing this was after checking with the tech people at FAST is that it will not "support" COP on a V-6. Apparently, there is some issue at higher RPM?

Since I am not a "tuner", I rely on those that are supposed to be for this type of work.

The Motec does work with COP, and I "heard" that Big Stuff III will also, but do not know anyone running it.

Nick, Dan White ran COP with the BigStuff 3 system and has been mid 7's with it. We installed COP with BigStuff 3 on Mike Bamfords bowtie V6 powered Syclone. No issues. Sorry to hear about your problems you had. Hope the engines were not total losses.

 

[turbobuick]

After blowing 2 expensive engines, one at the track, other on the dyno, we went with only distributors.

The "word" from the person doing this was after checking with the tech people at FAST is that it will not "support" COP on a V-6. Apparently, there is some issue at higher RPM?

Since I am not a "tuner", I rely on those that are supposed to be for this type of work.

The Motec does work with COP, and I "heard" that Big Stuff III will also, but do not know anyone running it.

Problem is sprak scatter and the way all these systems, XFI, Gen 7 BS3, update cam sync every 720* and only use a 3 pulse crank trigger. These system are not true crank tooth counters and will have HUGH issues with spark scatter running COP.

The BS3 is the only system that will support a 58x crank trigger (LS2 style) which GREATLY minimizes the problem but it still only updates cam sync every 720*. Motec and Electromotive are the only systems, I am aware of currently, that the will run a 58x, or 60-2, crank trigger and are true crank tooth counters updating/sync timing every 360*. I am also told the new Accel ICM ignition box will run this crank trigger setup and updates every 360* but I haven't looked into it yet. Anyone who comes up with something that'll support a 58x crank trigger and updates timing every 360* let me know I am interested.

 

[SloGN]

Problem is sprak scatter and the way all these systems, XFI, Gen 7 BS3, update cam sync every 720* and only use a 3 pulse crank trigger. These system are not true crank tooth counters and will have HUGH issues with spark scatter running COP.

The BS3 is the only system that will support a 58x crank trigger (LS2 style) which GREATLY minimizes the problem but it still only updates cam sync every 720*. Motec and Electromotive are the only systems, I am aware of currently, that the will run a 58x, or 60-2, crank trigger and are true crank tooth counters updating/sync timing every 360*. I am also told the new Accel ICM ignition box will run this crank trigger setup and updates every 360* but I haven't looked into it yet. Anyone who comes up with something that'll support a 58x crank trigger and updates timing every 360* let me know I am interested.

Chris

does the newer type 2 fast start systems update faster? i know that they have a 3X and a 18X crank ring and sensor.

I believe that the ignition module processes all the info from the cam/crank sensor then buffers the signals and then they get sent to the ecm.


gotta another question. How does one gain more power with a dist. I thought that by the spark jumping it creates a loss in energy. or does it create a loger dwell time on the coil?

 

[turbobuick]

Chris

does the newer type 2 fast start systems update faster? i know that they have a 3X and a 18X crank ring and sensor.

I believe that the ignition module processes all the info from the cam/crank sensor then buffers the signals and then they get sent to the ecm.


gotta another question. How does one gain more power with a dist. I thought that by the spark jumping it creates a loss in energy. or does it create a loger dwell time on the coil?

There is no ignition module in a COP setup it is controlled by the ECU.

Stock LS1's used a 24x crank trigger and the newer LS2's use a 58x wheel so GM is updating every 360* and counting crank teeth with a factory COP setup.

I don't think there is much, if any, gain in a distributor over the stock C3I until you have a motor that runs over 6250rpm on a consistent basis.

 

[GARY HARVEY]

I guess,
i need to find a dist and quit my sideline stance waiting for a successful COP system.

Electromotive's nice (anyone need a NIB Fast)?

Anyone have a spare dist?