TA Performance Race Headers cross over headaches

[DR BOOST]

i had the same problem. I had the crossover welded when it was hot and when it cooled, it was misaligned by about 1/4-1/2 inch. i got sick of dealing with them and put my stockers back on for now

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

i had the same problem. I had the crossover welded when it was hot and when it cooled, it was misaligned by about 1/4-1/2 inch. i got sick of dealing with them and put my stockers back on for now

Geesh,

Its been a couple days for me to cool off and I think I am going to remove the drivers header, attach the cross over off the car, and fill them up with water to see if the band leaks. I may even try to use the "lipstick" test on the bands too.

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

well I spent 4 hours tonight doing different things to the crossover to see if I could get it to align correctly. Things I have noticed:

* Using Nick's method of leaving the headers and the crossover joints loose is about the only way to make the exhaust's joints all mesh together
* However, With this being said, what happens when you need to replace one header gasket or a oil pan gasket and then they get "sprung" as in my case by taking the crossover out. This has to be the reason after my oil pan gasket replacement that the headers become misaligned by taking one piece of puzzle out.
* Vband gaskets MUST be in place during adjustment of the slip joint, as just as thin as they are, they affect the distance to fit the bands together.
* My Vbands appear to be flat.
* I could not effectively get the crossover to line up "close" unless I follow these steps:

1. I left my drivers side header tight, and my passenger side header tight.
2. Fasten the driver's side header to crossover (since its the most complex angle) with the gasket in place and tighten the Vband clamp.
3. The passenger side Vband comes down straight and level. You can see this joint much better than the pass side and insure your vbands nice and straight.
***** In my situation I had 3/16"+/- gap to close up. It was like the crossover was not tall enough. I would imagine if all bolts were loose or off a smidge it would align, but again, what do you do when you do not want to loosen both headers
4. My crossover had a "bolt together" flange at the slip joint, it was no where close to being in alignment with the direction the vbands needed to be in to be flat.
5. I had to push up, wiggle, move the pass side of the crossover toward the front of the car a touch, and now with a little more force it "appears" that the crossover Vband on the passenger side is in alignment and nice and flat.
***** It was a HUGE pain in the ass to get it to this point.

Now, then I broke another freaking Vband clamp, which is a special 5 star brand with a .40 apex width for the vbands to pinch together, so I cannot test out to see if things are correct. Got to special order another.

If this doesnt work, definitely having someone cut the crossover apart and fix the length of it.

 

[edezutel]

well I spent 4 hours tonight doing different things to the crossover to see if I could get it to align correctly. Things I have noticed:

* Using Nick's method of leaving the headers and the crossover joints loose is about the only way to make the exhaust's joints all mesh together
* However, With this being said, what happens when you need to replace one header gasket or a oil pan gasket and then they get "sprung" as in my case by taking the crossover out. This has to be the reason after my oil pan gasket replacement that the headers become misaligned by taking one piece of puzzle out.
* Vband gaskets MUST be in place during adjustment of the slip joint, as just as thin as they are, they affect the distance to fit the bands together.
* My Vbands appear to be flat.
* I could not effectively get the crossover to line up "close" unless I follow these steps:

1. I left my drivers side header tight, and my passenger side header tight.
2. Fasten the driver's side header to crossover (since its the most complex angle) with the gasket in place and tighten the Vband clamp.
3. The passenger side Vband comes down straight and level. You can see this joint much better than the pass side and insure your vbands nice and straight.
***** In my situation I had 3/16"+/- gap to close up. It was like the crossover was not tall enough. I would imagine if all bolts were loose or off a smidge it would align, but again, what do you do when you do not want to loosen both headers
4. My crossover had a "bolt together" flange at the slip joint, it was no where close to being in alignment with the direction the vbands needed to be in to be flat.
5. I had to push up, wiggle, move the pass side of the crossover toward the front of the car a touch, and now with a little more force it "appears" that the crossover Vband on the passenger side is in alignment and nice and flat.
***** It was a HUGE pain in the ass to get it to this point.

Now, then I broke another freaking Vband clamp, which is a special 5 star brand with a .40 apex width for the vbands to pinch together, so I cannot test out to see if things are correct. Got to special order another.

If this doesnt work, definitely having someone cut the crossover apart and fix the length of it.

Toby, I run the t/a race set on mine without gaskets on crossover just ultra copper on the flanges right or wrong no leaks for two years. Are the clamps breaking at the t or somewhere else? If they are breaking at the t I have a fix that could get you by.

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

Toby, I run the t/a race set on mine without gaskets on crossover just ultra copper on the flanges right or wrong no leaks for two years. Are the clamps breaking at the t or somewhere else? If they are breaking at the t I have a fix that could get you by.

THanks for the advice. I wondered if you could run without gaskets. I had the crossover mocked up for a bit, on one side with just the clamp, and I could move the pipe around. It appeared it was not tight enough. As for the fix on the clamp, yes i broke a T. If you can share a fix please do so!

 

[edezutel]

THanks for the advice. I wondered if you could run without gaskets. I had the crossover mocked up for a bit, on one side with just the clamp, and I could move the pipe around. It appeared it was not tight enough. As for the fix on the clamp, yes i broke a T. If you can share a fix please do so!

Remove the t-bolt from the clamp, I had to use the vise and pry it out drill thru the hoop all the way using 1/4 drill bit found a long 1/4 grade 8 bolt with a washer. You will have to use a torch and radius so it lines up a couple washers it's even easier to install as your not wresting with channel locks.

 

[turbo89]

THanks for the advice. I wondered if you could run without gaskets. I had the crossover mocked up for a bit, on one side with just the clamp, and I could move the pipe around. It appeared it was not tight enough. As for the fix on the clamp, yes i broke a T. If you can share a fix please do so!

Send them back .. make them fix it at their expense ... why are you doing their work for them .. that's what you paid the big money for is to have them fit correctly ..

an just a word of advice ... with a 304 stainless header .. if you are trying to align things where there is a big gap and using bolt force to suck things in .. that will stress the header and
cause potential cracks .. the header assembly should bolt right on the heads and the Xover should slip right on both joints with very very little to no mismatch.

Stainless moves a ton when heated .. the less stress put on it COLD the better off you are.. this is actually a pretty simple fix for them

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

Send them back .. make them fix it at their expense ... why are you doing their work for them .. that's what you paid the big money for is to have them fit correctly ..

an just a word of advice ... with a 304 stainless header .. if you are trying to align things where there is a big gap and using bolt force to suck things in .. that will stress the header and
cause potential cracks .. the header assembly should bolt right on the heads and the Xover should slip right on both joints with very very little to no mismatch.

Stainless moves a ton when heated .. the less stress put on it COLD the better off you are.. this is actually a pretty simple fix for them

I get what you are saying with send them back. But obviously you have never tried to tell TA that they did something wrong? You should have been a fly on the wall when I told them the package was torn open and I needed a hardware package, that was hard enough to get them to address.

 

[edezutel]

I get what you are saying with send them back. But obviously you have never tried to tell TA that they did something wrong? You should have been a fly on the wall when I told them the package was torn open and I needed a hardware package, that was hard enough to get them to address.

 

[turbo89]

I get what you are saying with send them back. But obviously you have never tried to tell TA that they did something wrong? You should have been a fly on the wall when I told them the package was torn open and I needed a hardware package, that was hard enough to get them to address.

Toby I feel for you .. yeah They screwed me over on 2 sets of rocker arm shafts that snapped ... which is why I will never buy from them again .. plenty of other good people out there that are willing to stand up for things they make .. if you know a fabricator that problem is super easy to fix.. just order 2 vbands and cut off the old ones .. use a motor with heads as a fixture and put the new vbands on the CORRECT way ... sucks we have to fix vendors problems ..

 

[TurboTGuy]

Send them back .. make them fix it at their expense ... why are you doing their work for them .. that's what you paid the big money for is to have them fit correctly ..

an just a word of advice ... with a 304 stainless header .. if you are trying to align things where there is a big gap and using bolt force to suck things in .. that will stress the header and
cause potential cracks .. the header assembly should bolt right on the heads and the Xover should slip right on both joints with very very little to no mismatch.

Stainless moves a ton when heated .. the less stress put on it COLD the better off you are.. this is actually a pretty simple fix for them

Instead of all you guys telling the OP to send them back and start over again, why don't you suggest a better set up...........?? Is there one out there of the same quality and equal performance gain?

Is it perhaps because you can't? Is it perhaps because most, if not EVERY SINGLE system out there provides its own problems?

Is it my memory failing or was GM known for somewhat "imprecise" fitting of just about EVERY part on ANY car manufactured in the 80's?

Thanks UAW!!!!!! Great job!

My TA SS headers have been installed, taken off, put back on and off and on the car again and again with little issue.

Mike works hard to make quality, good fitting parts and you guys piling on with your pissy complaints just goes to show you don't give a good got damn about if vendors continue to care and continue to make parts for our very obsolete cars.

Show me a TR body or engine that sits exactly on the car as the same one sitting next to it at a show and shine. It won't happen.

Mike's stuff is built to exact tolerances and made as close to the variance's the factory let slide back in the day. Each item is the same. It isn't his fault some GM union hack didn't square up and properly place the piece he was putting on the car correctly.

Let me ask all of you this......... What aftermarket piece have ANY of you put on your car without a little "nudge or wiggle" ?

But then again, it's only my opinion and I could be wrong.







GM wasn't exactly known for "precise tolerances" in the 80's, were they?

 

[turbo89]

Instead of all you guys telling the OP to send them back and start over again, why don't you suggest a better set up...........?? Is there one out there of the same quality and equal performance gain?

Is it perhaps because you can't? Is it perhaps because most, if not EVERY SINGLE system out there provides its own problems?

Is it my memory failing or was GM known for somewhat "imprecise" fitting of just about EVERY part on ANY car manufactured in the 80's?

Thanks UAW!!!!!! Great job!

My TA SS headers have on and off and on the car again and again with very little problem.

Mike works hard to make quality, good fitting parts and you guys piling on with your pissy complaints just goes to show you don't give a good got damn about if vendors continue to care and continue to make parts for our very obsolete cars.

Show me a TR body or engine that sits exactly on the car as the same one sitting next to it at a show and shine. It won't happen.

Mike's stuff is built to exact tolerances and made as close to the variance's the factory let slide back in the day. Each item is the same. It isn't his fault some GM union hack didn't square up and properly place the piece he was putting on the car correctly.

Let me ask all of you this......... What aftermarket piece have ANY of you put on your car without a little "nudge or wiggle" ?

But then again, it's only my opinion and I could be wrong.







GM wasn't exactly known for "precise tolerances" in the 80's, were they?

To quote Trump .. Wrong ! Wronger !

Don't go there with TA stuff .. I'm not gonna trash this thread .. just pointing out to Toby he should send it back and make Mike fix his F'UP ...
Funny never had a issue with my ATR setup being off by 3/16 or 1/2 "

IF their headers only fit Correctly with certain configurations .. they should list that .. or say "system will require modfications for installation if not using setup X,Y,Z " .. then its on me to make it work ..

to me if they aren't going to do it I right WTF is the point of them making anything for our cars .. the problem is people are just too willing to accept SHIT product nowdays ..

How is it all these guys fault ??

There is a difference between a wiggle to get something to fit and having to REDO 1/3 of the parts to make it work .. its not like these headers are $100 bucks !

 

[TurboTGuy]

To quote Trump .. Wrong ! Wronger !



IF their headers only fit Correctly with certain configurations .. they should list that .. or say "system will require modfications for installation if not using setup X,Y,Z " .. then its on me to make it work ..

to me if they aren't going to do it I right WTF is the point of them making anything for our cars .. the problem is people are just too willing to accept SHIT product nowdays ..

How is it all these guys fault ??

!

When, where, how did the OP, in this thread, say he had special needs that said "this system will require modifications for installation if not using setup X,Y,Z " ???? Not once.

Did the OP install new body bushings, motor mounts, trans brace mounts, drop spindles, larger wheels, bigger/smaller front sway bar, remove the front sway bar altogether, install an aftermarket Turbo or a different down pipe????

None of this matters? None of this slightly changes any engine/exhaust system geometry?

I'm not saying he should accept a "Shit Product".

And I'm NOT saying the OP did anything wrong, I'm just asking if he did his homework?

 

[turbo89]

When, where, how did the OP, in this thread, say he had special needs that said "this system will require modifications for installation if not using setup X,Y,Z " ???? Not once.

Did the OP install new body bushings, motor mounts, trans brace mounts, drop spindles, larger wheels, bigger/smaller sway bar, a different down pipe????

None of this matters?

I'm not saying he should accept a "Shit Product".

And I'm NOT saying the OP did anything wrong, I'm just asking if he did his fucking homework.

What fucking homework should he have done !!! he is running a stock 109 with production iron heads .. how much frickin simpler does it get ..

how in the world are body bushings , motor mounts, drop spindles, wheels gonna account for 3/16-1/2" of GAP on a frickin XOVER pipe ???

Put the HASH pipe down for a bit !! The headers bolt to the heads ONLY .. I don't care how much machine work he had done on the motor .. there is NO F'N way that is gonna account for that kind of mismatch !

and yes you are saying he should accept this just because the vendor works hard to make parts for our cars ..

This is True I am sure he does .. and he also gets PAID GOOD money for it , otherwise he wouldn't do it ... Don't defend them here on this topic as clearly THEY F'd up a product THEY
made and then in typical fashion passed the buck to the consumer to fix. Plain and simple .. its BULLSHIT !

Why is that some vendors on here .. we never have any problems with their parts ?? perhaps because they did their fucking homework !!

 

[~JM~]

...GM wasn't exactly known for "precise tolerances" in the 80's, were they?

Is that bolt metric or American?

 

[TurboTGuy]

What fucking homework should he have done !!! he is running a stock 109 with production iron heads .. how much frickin simpler does it get ..

how in the world are body bushings , motor mounts, drop spindles, wheels gonna account for 3/16-1/2" of GAP on a frickin XOVER pipe ???

Put the HASH pipe down for a bit !! The headers bolt to the heads ONLY .. I don't care how much machine work he had done on the motor .. there is NO F'N way that is gonna account for that kind of mismatch !

and yes you are saying he should accept this just because the vendor works hard to make parts for our cars ..

This is True I am sure he does .. and he also gets PAID GOOD money for it , otherwise he wouldn't do it ... Don't defend them here on this topic as clearly THEY F'd up a product THEY
made and then in typical fashion passed the buck to the consumer to fix. Plain and simple .. its BULLSHIT !

Why is that some vendors on here .. we never have any problems with their parts ?? perhaps because they did their fucking homework !!

Perhaps I missed it, but I haven't seen where YOU experienced the same issue the OP is complaining about?

And I've NEVER had a problem with the EXACT same system on my car. On and off three times.

Do YOU have a set of T/A SS Headers on your car?

I do.

Perhaps it is you that should put the pipe down and stop getting so upset about an issue that you have no real world experience with.

 

[TurboTGuy]

Is that bolt metric or American?

HAHAHAHAHA!!!


I can never seem to find that 6/16mm 17 point box end wrench when I need it.........

 

[turbo89]

Perhaps I missed it, but I haven't seen where YOU experienced the same issue the OP is complaining about?

And I've NEVER had a problem with the EXACT same system on my car. On and off three times.

Do YOU have a set of T/A SS Headers on your car?

I do.

Perhaps it is you that should put the pipe down and stop getting so upset about an issue that you have no real experience in.

HELL NO I DON'T .. ATR All the way ! they actually fit right out of the box... geez maybe its because they actually did their homework and cared about the products they sold.

but if you look at post number 30 .. I've had to fix TA's F'up on a customers car .. same story .. didn't fit right and TA go said fly a kite ... just like my rocker shafts that snapped... no QC

we should make vendor F'up's sticky's until they resolve the issues they have with their products ..

OVER AND OUT !

 

[TurboTGuy]

HELL NO I DON'T .. ATR All the way ! they actually fit right out of the box... geez maybe its because they actually did their homework and cared about the products they sold.

but if you look at post number 30 .. I've had to fix TA's F'up on a customers car .. same story .. didn't fit right and TA go said fly a kite ... just like my rocker shafts that snapped... no QC

we should make vendor F'up's sticky's until they resolve the issues they have with their products ..

OVER AND OUT !

All I can say is, "Go for it!"

Attack those scurrilous vendors!!!!!!

I'm not here to argue with you, I don't have that kind of time. I'm just reporting no problems with my identical set up, ever.

I don't see the reason for the trash talk, you do.

Let's just agree to disagree.

It's only Tuesday night, no reason to get twisted up. Enjoy the rest of your evening and week.

 

[Boost231]

Toby, sucks your having these issues. I have a set on my spare motor with no issues.

How many people are having this issue?

Wonder if we can narrow down why.

Sounds like your going to have to cut the vbands and re do them

Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk