9mm handgun???

I had a kimber tle rl II that I bought off of a fellow swat guy years ago, the gun had well over 10,000 rounds through it and it shot flawless. It was a great gun! I have owned two newer Kimbers and have had nothing but problems one had to be sent back to kimber twice and the other was sent back three times lucky for me my gun shop refunded me minus a 10% restocking fee. Needless to say I will never own a kimber again. Personally I think my Ed Brown special forces carry is better than my Wilson combat CQB. High dollar doesn't always mean better I have a Noveske N4 low pro and I think my LMT MRP CQB is a much better weapon.

Moral of the story is after 10's of thousands of dollars I have spent on weapons if you have say 2K to spend on a gun I would advice someone to buy a glock and spend the rest on ammo to practice practice practice. The old saying "Be scared of the man with only one gun"!!
 
Well this is an interesting subject! I have shot most of everything mentioned here... 90+% of us can't out shoot a STOCK gun... It is more what feels good to you.. Just look at shooting competitions, lots of glocks and plenty of M&P's... If you ever decide to shoot in competition I would rather have a longer gun like a Glock 17 or full size M&P! Also don't forget about the M&P Pro, I LOVE MINE!
 
If you ever decide to shoot in competition I would rather have a longer gun like a Glock 17 or full size M&P! Also don't forget about the M&P Pro, I LOVE MINE!

Or a STI 2011 w/ a C-MORE... :D

K.
 
Well this is an interesting subject! I have shot most of everything mentioned here... 90+% of us can't out shoot a STOCK gun... It is more what feels good to you.. Just look at shooting competitions, lots of glocks and plenty of M&P's... If you ever decide to shoot in competition I would rather have a longer gun like a Glock 17 or full size M&P! Also don't forget about the M&P Pro, I LOVE MINE!
I'd love an m&p 9mm pro. Going to shoot my m&p 22 tomm


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I am a big fan of the CZ 75SP01.
I agree with you John ... A friend brought over a new CZ to my range and everyone who tried it shot it better than their own guns !!!! I really like the way it fit & points , and I have smaller hands. It's priced right too.
 
I agree with you John ... A friend brought over a new CZ to my range and everyone who tried it shot it better than their own guns !!!! I really like the way it fit & points , and I have smaller hands. It's priced right too.


I just wish it was easier to get them.
Their production capacity for the US is far behind the demand.
 
The CZ is a Browning Hi-Power derivative?
I love my Glock, but have always loved the feel of the Hi-Power design
it just fits my hand; kinda' sexy ?!

Do_O
 
The CZ is a Browning Hi-Power derivative?
I love my Glock, but have always loved the feel of the Hi-Power design
it just fits my hand; kinda' sexy ?!

Do_O

Yeah the CZ is very similar to the Browning Hi-Power. Both are great 9mm pistols. I am personally partial to the SIG P226, but there are lots of great 9's out there.
 
Retired Army & Glock certified armorer here. Been shooting seriously for 20+ years and I'm here to tell you one thing about the Beretta/Glock stories you hear. First off, that whole berettas slides cracking all the time is shit. It's total bullshit. The only M9's that broke were the early models that had a few mistakes in them, just as EVERY manufacturer has.

Everyone, even Glock and Sig makes mistakes. The cracks were limited and fixed right away. Never seen one since. Plus, our M9's have WAYYYYYY more rounds thru them than ANYone here will EVER be able to afford to put to put thru them, and they still work. The only way you'll see a dicked up M9, is from a pogue ass armorer that was lazy and never did his job. (which was 99.9 % of them) If you maintain them correctly, they'll last forever.

As for the Glock, the only reason you see blown up Glocks is because they're soo affordable, and so everyone buys them to modify and shoot shit ammo thru them that isn't supposed to be shot thru them. Noone experiments with a 900 dollar Sig because A. they blew all their mod money on the guns itself, and B. there isn't any mod parts available for them anyways lol. People play with Glocks and so you're going to see a broken one from time to time. I have 11,000 or so rounds thru mine and it's as good as it was from day one. There are MANY, MANY Glocks out there with over 50,000 rounds thru them. I'd be willing to wager there's more Glocks in department hands with over 30,000 rounds thru them, than there is Sigs PERIOD is private homes. I've owned and tested MANY handguns, and I can tell you if the balloon goes up, it's my 4th gen G17 that's getting put in my holster when I leave the house. I LOVE all my handguns, but I wouldn't even consider my Walthers or Colts or Brownings. It's Glock hands down.

And as for the whole .38 thing. Guys, I don't care if you're loading Underwood or Buffalo Bore ammo in them, .38's are nothing more than longer .380 acp's, and NOTHING more. When I carry a .380 due to the clothes I have on, I have more rounds, a faster reload, and a better trigger pull on it, than any outdated .38 will ever dream of having when it grows up. Ditch the 34 pound trigger pull 5 shot .38, and buy a modern .380 automatic. It's a much better defensive handgun.

Your 9mm might expand, but my 45s will never shrink.
That whole "bigger hole" theory is just that; a theory. When all is said and done, the 9, .40, and .45 all penetrate to about the same depth, and end up with very similar temporary and permanent wound channels. Their imparted energies with normal rounds are all pretty similar as well. Imparted energies and penetration within these 3 standard cartridges shouldn't be the deciding factor-it should be price of gun, price & availability of ammo, and comfort with the shooting platform. When push comes to shove, if a person takes two to the chest in rapid succession at CQB distances with anything from the garbage hydra shok 9mm all the way up to a plus p .45 load from Underwood ammo (super hot stuff), it's going to be game over regardless. Buy what you an afford to shoot well, and often. The "punch" from any of these standard issue service calibers shouldn't be the deciding factor-you're wasting your time and money.
 
I'll stick with the theory, thank you.
And whether I can afford them or not, I own 6 different 1911 platform .45 autos.
Les Baer PII, purchased in about '94 or so, SA TM, purchased in about '92 or so,
a fully built James Hoag Colt 6" longslide, a Wilson Classic SG, a Ed Brown ET,
& a SA Rob Letham TGO-1 legend series. I load for all of my target shooting,
virtually same identical target load, Rem. NP cases, 180-185 gr LSWC, & about
3.6 - 3.9 Bullseye. Win. LPP. I have nothing against Glocks or their followers,
I am just not 1 of them. I don't own 1 because they are sister ugly.
 
its not just a theory, 45's make a bigger hole. Doesnt necessarily make it a better caliber, but if i had to pick...id rather get shot with a 9.

bullet-holes.jpg
 
I don't want to get shot with anything... Have you read today's story about the college baseball player that was shot and killed from a .22lr revolver??

For me, knowing that I can unload my wife's Glock-19 (with the 17+1 G17 magazine) faster and more accurate than I can unload any of my .45acp firearms that only hold 7+1 rounds, guess what I'm going for if the $h!t hits the fan!?!?

I'm no Jerry Miculek, and I like both the .45acp & 9mm, but I can make a bigger hole with 18-rounds of 9mm versus 8-rounds of .45acp! Unless I'm making holes in holes... ;)


K.
 
...Going to shoot my m&p 22 tomm

How'd it go?!?!? It doesn't take long to empty those 12-round magazines does it! :D

I scored some CCI velocitors recently, and plan on taking my daughter and the M&P-22 out soon to have some fun!

It's nice to see the .22lr and 9mm ammunition coming back around again!

K.
 
How'd it go?!?!? It doesn't take long to empty those 12-round magazines does it! :D

I scored some CCI velocitors recently, and plan on taking my daughter and the M&P-22 out soon to have some fun!

It's nice to see the .22lr and 9mm ammunition coming back around again!

K.
It ran great. No problems with Remington bulk and Winchester white box. Only thing I don't like is the ambi saftry


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...Only thing I don't like is the ambi safety

Yup, they're pretty chinsy... They are fairly easy to remove on the M&P-22 though. I'm used to riding the thumb safety on my 1911, so it doesn't bother me too much. I just don't use it on the M&P-22.

K.
 
Yup, they're pretty chinsy... They are fairly easy to remove on the M&P-22 though. I'm used to riding the thumb safety on my 1911, so it doesn't bother me too much. I just don't use it on the M&P-22.

K.
Yeah I will eventually remove it. But I will be using it to teach my younger brother how to handle a firearm and shoot. It'll stay on for now. She does run out of ammo quick. But glad I was able to get 2 extra magazines.


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I say shoot what works for you, if you soot better with a glock than a Sig or HK, then that's your weapon. I'm sure we all have different levels of shooting skills, in my line of work we are issued glock 17's , and we shoot very well with them. but my SIG, HK, and my Kimber
would be my choice. Kimber not so much for carry because it is a heavy weapon, if it's a weight issue, then yes it is hard to beat a glock 19
and were not even talking about the FN 5.7 :)
 
its not just a theory, 45's make a bigger hole. Doesnt necessarily make it a better caliber, but if i had to pick...id rather get shot with a 9.

bullet-holes.jpg

In hard objects like a piece of plywood or wallboard then yea, the holes are about a whole seven hundredths bigger for the .45. But if you're shooting something soft and gelatinous and semi self sealing, then the holes kinda shrink back up to a really small size all over again. Trust me, I know this to be true. It's the temporary wound channel you should be concerned with; and they are both very close. Sooo, which would you rather have, 7 rounds of .45 for about 14 bucks, or 15 rounds of the same power for about 13 dollars. You decide.
 
I'll take 9 rounds (8 shot mag + 1 in the tube) in any of my .45 autos, thank you.
It might only be my personal opinion, but the .45 more immediate shock, larger wound channel,
larger & quicker loss of blood, if only by a little more.
I would never stake my life on anything other than a .45. Well, maybe 2 .45's.
12 gauge also is quite effective at close range, depending upon other relevant conditions.
 
I will not argue with the facts of the proven 45, a great round for self defense. The biggest downside I see is the effect of recoil and time to get back on target, In many target speed shooting I have been involved in, the 45 will be slower to regain your target, even the 40 is a little slower due to a slight recoil comparing to a 9. I have seen and shot all three, and my times are slower with bigger calibers.

So I choose a 9 for concealed carry because of the smaller package and quicker to regain accuracy in shooting my target. Now a 9 with 3 shots placed where I want them or a 45 with 2 shots may be equeal give or take, but change the target scenario to multiple targets entering your home I will definatly go for a 9 that I can get more accurate shots down range in a given time.

I have a 40, two 9s and a 38 and feel safe with any of them as carry weapons, they will all do the job when needed. I have owned and shot 45s in the past and will eventually get another but I do not see it as a must have weapon at this time. I have the Wather pps 40, pps 9, glock 19 and Taurus 85 revolver ( my easiest to conceal even in the summer months).

I said it many times, it is more important that the weapon fits your hand properly so to have a natural point of aim in a self defense weapon than caliber size in most situations ( not all). Can anyone argue the placement of one shot, of any caliber that cannot bring a target down. I say shoot what you are comfortable and accurate with and you will get the job done. Biggest thing about natural point of aim, if you took the sights off the gun can you still point it as good as your finger points, if not then its time for a new carry weapon!!!! Target weapons a whole different story, sights are everything. Happy shooting and good luck.

Thanks
Bill
 
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