Alcohol Injection - Effect on EGT and narrow band O2 voltage?

4sfed4

New Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Since you guys seem to fiddle with water/alky injection a bit here, I wondered if you would be kind enough to offer some input on that type of system on my 4 cylinder Turbo Dodge. Please excuse my ignorance and what are most likely very basic questions.

In short, it appears my 52 pph fuel injectors are out of steam. I decided to reactivate my old cold start injector setup (which used to inject gasoline), but converted it to alcohol injection. Here is a quick video of one of the three that are installed spraying. This mist appears to be pretty fine, at least to my untrained eye. Does it look sufficient?

http://mysite.verizon.net/res1elpe/alcohol.mpg

This system runs with its own EFI pump (got it off an old 280Z turbo) and has its own FPR that is boost referenced to hold injection pressure at 55 psi over boost. For a reservoir, I used an old coolant overflow bottle from a Peugeot I found at the junkyard awhile back. (This bottle can take pressure if need be.) There are three cold starts in the intake pipe so that should flow a pretty decent amount of alcohol/water (or whatever other fuel. Ive used methanol before and may try it again.) In short, not too bad for about 40 bucks total.

Any of you guys know about how much affect a given volume of alcohol has on power and or ability to run more boost? (These cold starts typically flow about 30 hp worth of gasoline each from all reports, but I am unsure how that volumetric flow rate will translate when alcohol is being injected. If I recall, isnt stoichiometric for alky about 7:1? If so, the cold starts "rating" might only be half of what they would be with gasoline?)
Since alcohol is an oxygenated fuel, any idea from past alky users how this will this affect my narrow band O2 voltages? I assume they will drop for a given actual A/F ratio? Any idea how this system will affect EGTs?

And...the final question.....What is the best ratio of water to alcohol? I have been planning on using straight 71% isopropyl with no additional water mixed in since this stuff is cheap and easy to find at Walgreens, Eckerds, etc, etc. Should I be looking for something different?
 
From what I gather, denatured alcohol or methanol works better that isopropyl. I would mix it anywhere from 50/50 to straight alcohol. You will have to experiment.
 
Thanks spooledstang. I will check into that.

I believe denatured alcohol is the stuff available at Home Depot, paint stores, etc?
 
yep, its $10/gallon at both homedepot and lowes in my city. its ethanol with around 4% methanol to make it posinos. apparently ethanol is the same as everclear.:D
 
Are the cold start injectors you are using compatible with alcohol.

99 percent of fuel injectors are not. hence why nozzles are used.

Only the injectors from flex fuel vehicles are methanol/alcohol compatible.Everything else will rot and not fire.
 
Originally posted by Razor
Are the cold start injectors you are using compatible with alcohol.

99 percent of fuel injectors are not. hence why nozzles are used.

Only the injectors from flex fuel vehicles are methanol/alcohol compatible.Everything else will rot and not fire.

No they are not rated for alcohol. It is certainly a good point you bring up (and I see why from your signature!) and I did think about it. Since the cold starts are so cheap (a buck or two a piece), I figured if need be I could just replace them periodically. I do know of another Turbo Dodge guy running the cold starts with pure alcohol and hes done it for quite some time with no unfavorable results. However, I suppose if ones engine is reliant on the satisfactory operation of the injectors (mine isnt...it will run fine without any alcohol being injected), then one might want to consider more advanced options.

What is the consensus on how long something like a cold start injector will last in an alcohol/water environment?

EDIT - Razor....I see you are in Tampa. I am in Tarpon Springs :D
 
Larry, use of alcohol with incompatible metals is anyones guess. I just dont like maintenance. And I know theyre cheap, but if one goes wrong and ruins my motor, all the savings got tossed out the window...

Its cool to do stuff on a budget. Just keep an eye open..

If your free, the Buick event is this weekend the 6th and 7th at Bradenton Motorsport Park. If you get a chance drop by and say hi :)

I'll be the guy with a white Trans Am.. not many of those :D

Julio
 
Julio-

I probably will be at Bradenton on Saturday as I planned to come down for the test and tune on Saturday morning. I guess there will be some Buicks there to beat up on me :D
 
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