Any reviews of Revolution-X torque converters from Full Throttle?

[robzombie]

I am about to find out ! I just ordered one today from Full Throttle !

Nothing against Mike at full throttle but he has muscled in on Dave when it comes to these converters which I think is unfair.


Dave has done the R&D and Mike comes in and takes over with no time or investment involved at all.

Dave has put a converter on the market that is competitive with any other converter on the market and at a better price than any big name converter with the same performance.



Dave will also spend whatever time is needed talking to you to make sure you get the right part regardless of what he sells.

 

[bison]

Finally. You are admitting that it is a good converter.

I'm glad you tried it and liked it.

That is the builder I've been using for two years and you and others drug me through the mud in that thread that I won't mention but I'm sure you remember.

He makes a top notch unit in both LU and NLU. I'm not starting any crap, just saying that in the future before you give someone a beat down look at where they are coming from.

BTW I agree with everything that you said in this post.

You can't come to the conclusion that we have/had the same converter unless you know that for sure. We may or may not have. The difference is I have the numbers to back up what I post. I can't recall one post where you gave specific data explaining a given converters performance at a given power level. I don't give beat downs. I demand a tech related post in a tech forum. That requires real data. When the name dropping starts its no longer a tech related thread and opens the criticism window 100%. Theorizing about performance is great but it needs to be backed up with actual data. I theorized the 62mm compressor turbos were likely 9 sec turbos when guys were struggling to run mid 10's with them. If I said that back in 2008-2009 I'd probably have been shot. I got a bunch of data over a couple years time then applied it to my own car eventually running the number and quite easily. There has to be supporting data.



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[robzombie]

You can't come to the conclusion that we have/had the same converter unless you know that for sure. We may or may not have. The difference is I have the numbers to back up what I post. I can't recall one post where you gave specific data explaining a given converters performance at a given power level. I don't give beat downs. I demand a tech related post in a tech forum. That requires real data. When the name dropping starts its no longer a tech related thread and opens the criticism window 100%. Theorizing about performance is great but it needs to be backed up with actual data. I theorized the 62mm compressor turbos were likely 9 sec turbos when guys were struggling to run mid 10's with them. If I said that back in 2008-2009 I'd probably have been shot. I got a bunch of data over a couple years time then applied it to my own car eventually running the number and quite easily. There has to be supporting data.



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Let me be clear then, We have converters from the same builder.

We have different converters as I use a LU .

They work and you have said so, that's all I need. Let's just say that you put the supporting data up there for me.

Thank you for proving the point that I was trying to make all along. There are people on here that wouldn't listen to me no matter what I say.
People on here are very stubborn and you have your following that no matter what you say they agree with you.

In that thread you did try to give me a beat down and disappeared like a fart in the wind when Lonnie came in and set you straight.

I laid low all the while knowing that you have been testing them and waited for you to give your experience with them. Who better than you to prove a point that I was trying to get across.

I'm just glad that the truth has come out especially through you. You can try to back peddle like a politician if you want and try to take back all the good things you said about the converters but it will only tarnish your reputation.

Thanks for doing the hard work for me as you are in a better position to do so.

You should be proud as you helped the TB community see the truth even if you did it unwittingly.

Thanks again Brian, I appreciate the time you spent and data you logged and showed that for 500 less than a PTC you can get a comparable converter.

 

[bison]

Let me be clear then, We have converters from the same builder.

We have different converters as I use a LU .

They work and you have said so, that's all I need. Let's just say that you put the supporting data up there for me.

Thank you for proving the point that I was trying to make all along. There are people on here that wouldn't listen to me no matter what I say.
People on here are very stubborn and you have your following that no matter what you say they agree with you.

In that thread you did try to give me a beat down and disappeared like a fart in the wind when Lonnie came in and set you straight.

I laid low all the while knowing that you have been testing them and waited for you to give your experience with them. Who better than you to prove a point that I was trying to get across.

I'm just glad that the truth has come out especially through you. You can try to back peddle like a politician if you want and try to take back all the good things you said about the converters but it will only tarnish your reputation.

Thanks for doing the hard work for me as you are in a better position to do so.

You should be proud as you helped the TB community see the truth even if you did it unwittingly.

Thanks again Brian, I appreciate the time you spent and data you logged and showed that for 500 less a PTC you can get a comparable converter.

I never back peddled. I actually posted data while everyone one else was nut swinging which is commonplace in this community. When you post real data you don't need to worry about tarnishing your rep.


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[robzombie]

I never back peddled. I actually posted data while everyone one else was nut swinging.


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Yes, I agree. I'm talking about this thread not the other.

What I'm saying is that if you try to say that these converters don't work now or say that they aren't on par with the best converters on the market you would be back peddling not that you already have.

It's all good ,I'm not trying to start any crap, it would be better if we worked together instead of against each other.

We both want the same thing believe it or not. We want the best products that work and at the best prices.

 

[robzombie]

The first two torque converters advertised on Full Throttle's transmission page are 9.5" Revolution X. These are the converters the O.P. is asking about. Did you have difficulty finding these?

So one of the biggest obstacles standing in the way is determining which one came first? Really?

The problem with this statement is that we are not talking about nitrous,high revving V8 engines. In the turbo Buick community,it's only been used in Dave's converters until now.

Despite these facts,Full Throttle is marketing a converter using this pump. Dave has been using this pump,that you say doesn't couple,for two years. Bison has determined that it couples well.

Okay, I will chime in now and put this to bed.

This all started back in march 2013 when I was looking for a converter a few years ago and talked to Dusty about the 9.5 he sells.

I then ended up going with R&R because I wanted a LU that ran in the tens that worked.

I bought one from him and had Lonnie build me a trans with one of these converters. Lonnie liked it so much that I put him in touch with Greg and they collaborated on how to build converters for various TB apps and power level applications.

Dave also got involved and did all of the work with people on the board. Between Dave and Lonnie's input Greg has come out with one of the best converters for TB's and at an affordable price.

Mike is just reselling the same converter as Dave and Lonnie and trying to cash in on the hard work of Lonnie and Dave.

 

[chris718]

I thought the revolution converter was from Protorque in Bohemia NY?

 

[chris718]

I thought the revolution converter was from Protorque in Bohemia NY?

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Thanks again Brian, I appreciate the time you spent and data you logged and showed that for 500 less than a PTC you can get a comparable converter.

Let's also be clear about the details when you say comparable. Bison ran 9's with it but he also requested a tighter stall. He was able to request a tighter stall because he's using a 62mm turbo which is more responsive than what anyone else is running in that et range. What he has proven is that most cars are over turbo'd. I have restalled one recently but didn't know it was it was the same converter Dave is selling. I just recognized the name R&R because it's the same guy who builds Justin Cox's converter for his nitrous car. Justin is Lonnie's friend. Now I have put 2 and 2 together. The converter is a quality piece but he was having the exact issue I've stated previously in this thread. He was using a 6765 and his converter was stalling at 2450. I changed the configuration to something I have been testing in the LS junkyard build cars and stall went to 2800 but didn't loose any slip up top. The car picked up 2 tenths mainly from the 60' and 330' improving. 10.70-10.50. Again it's possible to get a 245mm to have low slip you just have to make it tighter down low which is what I've told everyone at least 6 years ago. To add to that. We talk stall speed's but many don't see the relation. A converter that stalls at 2800 rpm at 1psi with a 62mm may see 1psi at 2400 with a stock turbo and require 3200 to see 1psi with a 70mm. Same converter, 3 different 1# stall speed's because of turbo size.

To sum it up, in comparison to the 9.5 PTC this is what we know. In a non lock configuration it is as capable of running 9's as the PTC however it will be tighter down low so it's better suited to smaller turbo's. It's core is the same one I use to build a $450 non lock or a $500 lock-up but he is using a billet backing plate kit to build with. The 9.5 is built on a stronger core and is still the only converter to be used in 6,7,8,9,10 and 11 second Buick's so you know your getting something that you can not break and will not out grow. The 9.5 will have a higher stall but equal slip. I have previously built a tighter version of the 245mm in a lock-up where stall speed was around 2400-2500 to be used in mid 10 second cars but didn't like what I saw in testing so I quit. I still recommend the 9.5 for 10 second cars and faster and Bison is still using them as well.

 

[robzombie]

Let's also be clear about the details when you say comparable.

You can say what you want about the PTC still being the best out there. We all know you make money on it and that's fine.
I don't want to go down the same road that we did before and start a crap fest, but we both know and so do many builders out there, that there is only one part that sets the PTC apart from some others.

Comparable is a relative term as you've stated, and every car is a little different in that no two combos are the same.

I know a 9.70 TR that runs better since he removed his PTC and won't use one in his car again because as he put it, it brutalizes the motor on launch compared to let's just say some other converter that he uses now. I will also say that it ran within a tenth of the PTC and he says his motor is much happier now.

So pissing match aside, the PTC may work for some and other brands work better for others.

For people looking for performance and want to save hundreds and still get quality converters that work there are other brands out there that fit the bill and take you in the nines reliably and for less money.

The 9.5 is built on a stronger core and is still the only converter to be used in 6,7,8,9,10 and 11 second Buick's so you know your getting something that you can not break and will not out grow.

That's' total hogwash with a statement like that.

You certainly are throwing money away on a PTC when elevens are your goal. And I don't even consider the room to grow as a qualifying statement because you would have to send it in for a re-stall each time you grow as you put it, which isn't free. CHA-CHING!

You don't need to spend a thousand on a converter to run elevens.

I run in the tens as do many people and others have run in the high nines with a LU and have not broke the converter.

I laugh when I see all these posts about how people post that they just bought a 9.5 NLU, like it's a badge of honor or something. I laugh because they are just buying into the hype that the PTC is the only converter out there that will work for them and they street drive or go to the track twice a year.

To those people it may be worth the extra money they spend, but there are those out there like me who do their homework and get the best parts and the best price by not being led by the nose from a few on this or any other forum.

PTC may have been the best at some point, but improvements are always being made by most companies who want to either be or stay relevant in such a competitive market.

I will say that the PTC is a good converter but to say it's the only one to use so you don't break one does make you look desperate. If this statement was geared towards something that you could show as fact, like if you run in the eights or have a T/B or something where other brands failed it wouldn't bother me at all.

If you're referring to the 9.5NLU without a sprag then yes it is stronger but the trade off is more heat and we already went down that road.

Racing = spragless.

street/strip = sprag unless you have a big trans cooler/fan or some means to keep the heat down while street driving especially in hilly areas or have broken a sprag because of your power level.

 

[hensleyt]

I have a 11.5 car,when we look at the logger,ET,MPH what are we looking at?I wish to compare my present converter to the available converters.
At my power its not the hole picture but I think it dose play a important part
11 sec cars owners like having choices too and lately there has been more.
I would like to maximize my combo,calling any four of these vendors will get me what I need I just want to understand what I have and what they can do for me

 

[forcefed3.8's]

Here is my $.02 as it applies to converters. I have driven and raced the same combos with different converters over the last 10 years. My original build with my car was a stock short block, 215/220 roller from FT, ported heads I did back in the early 2000s, TE63e turbo and a viginlate 0 pump single disc. Figuring it had heads and cam, it got a cz trans, and shifted at 5800. On a 275/60 MT radial, at 25psi, i struggled to 60'. 5 to 7 psi, 1.5x 60's, 11.0 ets. I tried launching with more, and it spun, even 1 lbs more, this was average track prep at local tracks. On a good track, went 1.47, 10.87@125.
This same combo except with a FT 210/215 cam, ran the same in the Cutlass, 10.88@124 at lower boost because the car was lighter, and the trans shifted sooner, 5200.
I switched the car to a PTC 17 Blade, changed the valve springs, and now on the same tire, even 4 years old was going 10.3@130 with 25psi, easy 5psi mid 1.4 60's , and the tires could have handles more, I just ran out of passes to try, fresh radial pros went 1.34 off 10psi, all stock suspension, no arms, sway bars, nothing just an air bag. The car ended up going 9.86@137 on 29psi. A combo that back in 2008 was a solid 11.0 performer, with occasional 10s.
Next, my stroker 109, 10.21@134 vigilante 5 disc locked at 100mph. 1.45 60's were brutal to achieve off 7 psi, the car wanted to roll.
Added an 18 blade PTC along with a full manual TH400 so I had to get the shift down. First pass no boost, timing, or fueling change, 10.21@134 shifting at 5500, which was the converter flash. 5psi launch 1.45 60', the car didnt want to push the lights.
Next pass shifting at 6200, 9.86@138 1.45 60' again, could have tried for more, but I was happy to be in the 9s and went home.
The vigilante to my knowledge is like the 10" 2800 stall from Dusty.
With the right converter, the car will 60' easier, and faster even where the car would spin with the wrong converter.
For an 11 sec car with heads and cam, I would run a 17 blade, which would require no restall for typical combos into the mid 9s. Only if the engine and combo likes more rpm, would you loosen it to keep the rpm window happy.
There are plenty of applications I would spec a FT converter, a 10 or 11 sec car that is most likely not planning on big changes in the future, the kind of owner who isnt going to race all of the time, so most likely isnt going to want to run 9s later on.
It is nice to have these converter options now, I see where both converters have a place in the market.

 

[robzombie]

I have a 11.5 car,when we look at the logger,ET,MPH what are we looking at?I wish to compare my present converter to the available converters.
At my power its not the hole picture but I think it dose play a important part
11 sec cars owners like having choices too and lately there has been more.
I would like to maximize my combo,calling any four of these vendors will get me what I need I just want to understand what I have and what they can do for me

Call each one of them and see what each one says. Then buy one from the person you feel most comfortable with and gives you the most bang for your buck.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

You can say what you want about the PTC still being the best out there. We all know you make money on it and that's fine.
I don't want to go down the same road that we did before and start a crap fest, but we both know and so do many builders out there, that there is only one part that sets the PTC apart from some others.

Comparable is a relative term as you've stated, and every car is a little different in that no two combos are the same.

I know a 9.70 TR that runs better since he removed his PTC and won't use one in his car again because as he put it, it brutalizes the motor on launch compared to let's just say some other converter that he uses now. I will also say that it ran within a tenth of the PTC and he says his motor is much happier now.

So pissing match aside, the PTC may work for some and other brands work better for others.

For people looking for performance and want to save hundreds and still get quality converters that work there are other brands out there that fit the bill and take you in the nines reliably and for less money.



That's' total hogwash with a statement like that.

You certainly are throwing money away on a PTC when elevens are your goal. And I don't even consider the room to grow as a qualifying statement because you would have to send it in for a re-stall each time you grow as you put it, which isn't free. CHA-CHING!

You don't need to spend a thousand on a converter to run elevens.

I run in the tens as do many people and others have run in the high nines with a LU and have not broke the converter.

I laugh when I see all these posts about how people post that they just bought a 9.5 NLU, like it's a badge of honor or something. I laugh because they are just buying into the hype that the PTC is the only converter out there that will work for them and they street drive or go to the track twice a year.

To those people it may be worth the extra money they spend, but there are those out there like me who do their homework and get the best parts and the best price by not being led by the nose from a few on this or any other forum.

PTC may have been the best at some point, but improvements are always being made by most companies who want to either be or stay relevant in such a competitive market.

I will say that the PTC is a good converter but to say it's the only one to use so you don't break one does make you look desperate. If this statement was geared towards something that you could show as fact, like if you run in the eights or have a T/B or something where other brands failed it wouldn't bother me at all.

If you're referring to the 9.5NLU without a sprag then yes it is stronger but the trade off is more heat and we already went down that road.

Racing = spragless.

street/strip = sprag unless you have a big trans cooler/fan or some means to keep the heat down while street driving especially in hilly areas or have broken a sprag because of your power level.

Please tell me the one part of the PTC 9.5 that set's it apart from the converter your using. I know it's much more than that but would like to hear your side.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

As for the rest of your comments.

If you knew as much about converters as you thought you did you would realize a PTC 9.5 rarely has to be restalled. Like was said above, 1 converter can take a car from the 11's into the 8's and has done so. I discuss future plans with everyone who calls. If someone decides years down the road they want to change the combo..... Say they go from a 9 second car to a Stage 2 car that turns 7500 rpm which is a drastic change, $300 is all that's required for a stall change.

I've been putting sprag's in 9.5's for years if someone wants one or I think they need one. The fact is 90% of the people don't need them and that has been proven hundred's of times over. A sprag will be a failure point so why install it if it isn't needed. However the sprag I have been using has yet to fail. I made sure to test them in the 10.5 racing scene before using them in street converters.

Yes I agree my 9.5 is overkill for an 11 second car but don't hate on the guys who made the choice to buy it over my $500 option. They still got a converter that will take them as far as they ever want to go. When compared to the Precision multi-disc at well over $1,000 it's still the only non lock I know that has been 10's on a bone stock engine in which case $1,000 for a high 10 second car is still cheaper than the other options and doesn't require locking at WOT. Bang for the buck is a moving target depending on what your looking to do. You may not want to spend an extra $400 on a converter, the next caller on the line may buy 3 at a time for the same car, just to test and see which one is faster.

 

[robzombie]

Please tell me the one part of the PTC 9.5 that set's it apart from the converter your using. I know it's much more than that but would like to hear your side.

As for the rest of your comments.

If you knew as much about converters as you thought you did you would realize a PTC 9.5 rarely has to be restalled. Like was said above, 1 converter can take a car from the 11's into the 8's and has done so. I discuss future plans with everyone who calls. If someone decides years down the road they want to change the combo..... Say they go from a 9 second car to a Stage 2 car that turns 7500 rpm which is a drastic change, $300 is all that's required for a stall change.

I've been putting sprag's in 9.5's for years if someone wants one or I think they need one. The fact is 90% of the people don't need them and that has been proven hundred's of times over. A sprag will be a failure point so why install it if it isn't needed. However the sprag I have been using has yet to fail. I made sure to test them in the 10.5 racing scene before using them in street converters.

Yes I agree my 9.5 is overkill for an 11 second car but don't hate on the guys who made the choice to buy it over my $500 option. They still got a converter that will take them as far as they ever want to go. When compared to the Precision multi-disc at well over $1,000 it's still the only non lock I know that has been 10's on a bone stock engine in which case $1,000 for a high 10 second car is still cheaper than the other options and doesn't require locking at WOT. Bang for the buck is a moving target depending on what your looking to do. You may not want to spend an extra $400 on a converter, the next caller on the line may buy 3 at a time for the same car, just to test and see which one is faster.

I stand by my statements and refuse to get in a pissing match with you again.

I know enough about converters and what I don't know I have people that know and actually share the info. I also have heard what damage a PTC can do to a motor and trans when you run a spragless converter.

What pissed him off was that he didn't know that you sold him a spragless and when the fluid got hot enough to flare in the third gear shift while racing he also blew a H/G.

Yea he was real happy about that. HE had to change the converter, rebuild the trans and fix the H/G. How much did that cost? You took care of the converter for him by installing a sprag, but he still had to pay for the other damage done. I realize that this can happen with any converter but for you to make a blanket statement that the 9.5 is bullet proof and the best for almost any situation is bogus.

If half the people on hear would tell the truth on the board we could put this crap to bed. If a PTC is so good and doesn't need a restall then why do guys sell their converters on the board, and their excuse is always the same as when they sell a turbo.

In perfect shape with low miles, only reason I'm selling is that I'm changing directions. I laugh every time I see that BS remark!

So who's full of crap?? The people selling them because they are changing direction or that it just doesn't work like they thought it would or had some problem.

I know the PTC is a good converter [I'm not arguing that point] but it's not the miracle that you propose it to be. Many people like them and that's great so go ahead and keep selling the hell out of them.

PTC isn't the only game in town for TR's anymore and some people are willing to try something else for whatever reason, whether it's because they can get a quality unit that performs as good for less or want a LU that runs in the tens reliably or some other reason it really doesn't matter. Some don't want to spend a G note when they can get the same performance for less.

If they race it and every tenth counts [nines and lower] than maybe you might have a small edge because you've been dialing them in for a long time but others are not only close they will be better because they want to be on top also and spending that kind of money on a street/strip car is overkill for some.

You should feel good that the competition is coming after you because it means you were one of the best and now they want what you have. You just have to work harder and be more competitive price wise and step up the performance to stay on top.

Let's just say that we agree to disagree on some things and walk away from this because you won't change my mind nor I yours.


I'm done with this thread so don't even try to bait me into a response, you won't get one.

 

[forcefed3.8's]

I bet that most people that buy them end up needing the money back, so they end up selling them along with other parts on their car that will bring fast cash. I am back to running the same 18 blade i ran in the high 9s. I switched to a 20 blade when I went with a 4 bolt turbo. I ran the 4 bolt with the 18 blade, and after running it at the track, the car liked to be shifted at 7000rpms rather than 6600. The 20 blade flashed to 6400 where the 18 flashed to 6000, so the 20 was faster. Now going back to a 3 bolt, i need the rpms lower again. This is an extreme case, and most will never have this happen. As far as the extra heat, i drive my car a lot on the street. I drove it 45 mins on the highway to a dyno tune. I havent changed the trans fluid since I started running this trans in 2010.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Lol. Man he reaches realllyyy far. An engine failure because a converter was spragless. I'll be laughing at that one for a while. I'm not asking for a pissing match. I'm just calling your bluff. You can't answer the question. I'll go ahead and answer for you because you've said it before. THE STATOR. Yes it's a hand built, TIG welded stator that takes a lot of time to build but is the heart of a converter. This is why people don't want to copy it because it takes a good bit more work vs plucking one out of the mail. If you knew more about it you'd realize the entire pump design, turbine design and size is also different. There are at least 8 different cores I can build a converter from. Each having their own characteristics which is why they all work differently. They may all look like fins to you but each core has a different curve and blade count. Your converter and the 9.5 are 2 totally different pieces other than the stator which stands out.

I build a 245 based non lock for $450 and sell them to the LS turbo junkyard guys. They seem to compete to see who can go the fastest for the least money spent. Some have been 8's with the 9.5 but the 245 based converter isn't far off in the low 9's. I have sent them out to a couple Buick guys already with positive results. I'll test it myself and have real info for everyone when I get caught up in a few months.​