Best Shortblock??

[BRAD_PADGETT]

Thanks on the comment, Guess im out of luck one block is 25514290 and the other is 1261787 so looks like I need to look for a different block???

This is a no brainer. Keep some money in your wallet and use the 25514290 block. The 109 is simply a complete waste of money on a Hot Air. I actually am running a 25524140 block. It is what's in the block that matters alot more. My 2 cents. Brad

 

[latebrkr]

Well all of this is good news the 290 it is. Now start looking for rotating assembly now. Thanks for all the input! Just need to decide on a stroker or stock stroke?? I think stroker would be better and turn the motor lower rpm and maker more power myself but what is the input here?? Gonna change turbo for sure so what do you guys think??

 

[charlief1]

find a 4.1 block and it will be cheaper than a stroker. A stroker will cost much more than a 3.8 stock or a 4.1. Call around and you'll see what I mean.

 

[ZNix]

Wow.. There is a huge amount of different blocks out there. I only knew of two that were 3.8s. The 109, and the 84 HA block lol.

 

[usetaboost]

I'm running an 82 n/a block in my car. I got way more money in machine work than I do parts I know that for sure

 

[usetaboost]

If it was me I'd just pull the original motor and rebuild it and keep all the original parts like I didn't do and rebuild those too and stick those back on-IE: water pump, alternator, and the starter...hows that for looking stock I wish I would have kept all that stuff.

 

[Jerryl]

If it was me I'd just pull the original motor and rebuild it and keep all the original parts like I didn't do and rebuild those too and stick those back on-IE: water pump, alternator, and the starter...hows that for looking stock I wish I would have kept all that stuff.

X2!
Especially with a $1500 budget.
The "only" thing I would change is that heavy pig of a starter!
What a pain to install!

find a 4.1 block and it will be cheaper than a stroker. A stroker will cost much more than a 3.8 stock or a 4.1. Call around and you'll see what I mean.

Agree, with a clarifying statement ;
If you get the correct 4.1 block that will not crack.

Stroker is not a cheap deal and will put a serious dent in your wallet. (Esinger can you confirm?)

There is a lot of supporting mods to be done besides just the stroker part on any motor. It is much trickier on a HA. (Notice I said HA :tongue: )

This is a no brainer. Keep some money in your wallet and use the 25514290 block. . . . It is what's in the block that matters alot more. My 2 cents. Brad

X2!


latekrbr;
You will note is that stock HA parts are plentifull, thanks to all the conversions. (boostmaster are you listening?)
My advise for parts, is to post in this section for "parts wanted" if you need parts.

Your KEY to a succesfull project will still be LOTS of reading, and GOOD tuning/data collection tools!

 

[latebrkr]

Ok after reading all of this info let me pick your brains again.lol What if I use the 290 block and just buy all new forged rotating assembly not a stroker stuff and reinforced everthing with girdlle,arp stuff with maybe billit caps put it all back together with new roller cam,lifters,rockers,bigger injectors upgrade the turbo my poted intake the kenne bell headers with the help of someone on here to guide me through the electronics part and the tuning with all the stock stuff on it esp the air what can I get out of this baby. I would like to run on E 85. I have more stock stuff laying around that came with the car lots and lots and lots so keeping it stock appering will not be a problem. I have a guy here in KC that has a set of 60 lb inj for sale are they going to be to big?? I f not what are they worth used.

 

[ZNix]

Ok after reading all of this info let me pick your brains again.lol What if I use the 290 block and just buy all new forged rotating assembly not a stroker stuff and reinforced everthing with girdlle,arp stuff with maybe billit caps put it all back together with new roller cam,lifters,rockers,bigger injectors upgrade the turbo my poted intake the kenne bell headers with the help of someone on here to guide me through the electronics part and the tuning with all the stock stuff on it esp the air what can I get out of this baby. I would like to run on E 85. I have more stock stuff laying around that came with the car lots and lots and lots so keeping it stock appering will not be a problem. I have a guy here in KC that has a set of 60 lb inj for sale are they going to be to big?? I f not what are they worth used.

Woah buddy. For a Hot Air car, that is way way overkill. The only thing that may need forged is the pistons, but definitely not the crank and rods. IIRC the stock crank and rods have been in the 10's. With a hot air, you won't be pushing enough power to break them. The girdle, and billit caps I have no idea about. But they sound expensive, and for high power cars. What your doing is building a block that goes like 9s, for an 11s car. To address the injectors, you can never go to big. Well, you can but 60's are not too big for most applications.

I will let a more experienced guy chime in.. I am not the most knowledgeable, but I know a little.

 

[Jerryl]

Woah buddy. For a Hot Air car, that is way way overkill. The only thing that may need forged is the pistons, but definitely not the crank and rods. . . . the stock crank and rods have been in the 10's. With a hot air, you won't be pushing enough power to break them..

Good advice, but I would like to clarify the "HA" and the "10's" part to make sure the info is accurate and on target.
1-HA's have been in the 10's, so that HP level is achievable . . .YES, even in stock HA turbo location/form.
2-“HP Power” is not the only determining factor for breaking a crank.

I am starting to spend waaaaay too much time here lately.
Later fellas and Good luck!

 

[ZNix]

Good advice, but I would like to clarify the "HA" and the "10's" part to make sure the info is accurate and on target.
1-HA's have been in the 10's, so that HP level is achievable . . .YES, even in stock HA turbo location/form.
2-“HP Power” is not the only determining factor for breaking a crank.

I am starting to spend waaaaay too much time here lately.
Later fellas and Good luck!

Thanks for the corrections Jerryl. That is how you learn . Now, are you talking about torque being the other determining factor? Or is there something else completely unrelated to the power of the engine? Just to satisfy my curiosity.

Thanks
Nix

 

[charlief1]

Well let's see.

Billet caps. $100 each unless you get lucky.
Girdle. $300 if I remember right
Stroker crank $2800 from TA performance
Rods. $0.00 re-size and re use stock
Pistons. $500 minimum for shorter forged ones.
Machine work. $3K if you have somone that is capable.

Sorry but this blew your budget. It just isn't cheap to make a stroker at all. And this doesn't include the hours of labor and any other goodies you need to buy at the same time. Finding a set of KB headers is darned near impposible right now since they don't make them any more.

 

[ZNix]

Well let's see.

Billet caps. $100 each unless you get lucky.
Girdle. $300 if I remember right
Stroker crank $2800 from TA performance
Rods. $0.00 re-size and re use stock
Pistons. $500 minimum for shorter forged ones.
Machine work. $3K if you have somone that is capable.

Sorry but this blew your budget. It just isn't cheap to make a stroker at all. And this doesn't include the hours of labor and any other goodies you need to buy at the same time. Finding a set of KB headers is darned near impposible right now since they don't make them any more.

Charlie, he said NOT stroker stuff. If I read correctly.

 

[Jerryl]

..... Now, are you talking about torque being the other determining factor? Or is there something else completely unrelated to the power of the engine? Just to satisfy my curiosity. . . . .

Two little things called "Detonation" and "Pre-ignition".

Nix,
I don’t want you guys to think I know it all, because I most certainly don’t , nor do I ever plan on it.
All I am trying to accomplish is to flatten the learning curve of new HA owners and save the thousands of spend dollars on my way up the learning curve.
We all agree that money is MUCH better spend elsewhere.

I know how hard it is and, if I can prevent one person from making the same mistakes, followed by extreme frustrations and thinking you need to “spend more $$$”, and/or “convert to the 86/87 IC’d setup and it will all go away” , I will do just that.
Just have a passion for these pre 86-87 cars, that’s all.


.

 

[ZNix]

Two little things called "Detonation" and "Pre-ignition".

Nix,
I don’t want you guys to think I know it all, because I most certainly don’t , nor do I ever plan on it. What I can try to do however, is to flatten your learning curve, and save “you” the thousands of dollars I had on my way up the learning curve. Money is MUCH better spend elsewhere.

I know how hard it is and, if I can prevent one person from making the same mistakes, followed by extreme frustrations and thinking you need to “spend more $$$”, and/or “convert to IC’d and it will all go away”, I will do just that. Just have a passion for these pre 86-87 cars, that’s all.

I have no problem with learning. And I really appreciate your knowledgeable responses. I was not even thinking about detonation and pre-ignition. To be honest, I kind of forgot about their crank breaking forces lol. And I am sure I will be happy I took your advice when I save those 1000's of dollars.

 

[charlief1]

Charlie, he said NOT stroker stuff. If I read correctly.

My bad, but the crank is just about the same cost. If you want a good one that is.

 

[latebrkr]

Woah buddy. For a Hot Air car, that is way way overkill. The only thing that may need forged is the pistons, but definitely not the crank and rods. IIRC the stock crank and rods have been in the 10's. With a hot air, you won't be pushing enough power to break them. The girdle, and billit caps I have no idea about. But they sound expensive, and for high power cars. What your doing is building a block that goes like 9s, for an 11s car. To address the injectors, you can never go to big. Well, you can but 60's are not too big for most applications.

I will let a more experienced guy chime in.. I am not the most knowledgeable, but I know a little.

I just don't like doing things twice and yes I would like to have a lower end that will support 9 sec and run 11's its just safer in the long run. My motor in my stang will supprt low 8's high 7's but I run it on pump gas and it will run mid 10's all day long. Don't get me wrong I don't have to have the best of the best here just want quility stuff. And as far as the headers go I have a brand new set never installed laying on my shop floor so I'm good to go. Jerry I would like to call you after the holidays and talk to you about my build. I could swear I saw a stroker kit for 2k from Weber or not.

 

[ZNix]

I just don't like doing things twice and yes I would like to have a lower end that will support 9 sec and run 11's its just safer in the long run. My motor in my stang will supprt low 8's high 7's but I run it on pump gas and it will run mid 10's all day long. Don't get me wrong I don't have to have the best of the best here just want quility stuff. And as far as the headers go I have a brand new set never installed laying on my shop floor so I'm good to go. Jerry I would like to call you after the holidays and talk to you about my build. I could swear I saw a stroker kit for 2k from Weber or not.

You have headers for a hot air . Lucky guy... I have been trying to find some ATRs or Postons.. Something better than these stock restrictions.

 

[ZNix]

I was looking on Ebay, and found this. If you decide not to got stroker, this might be a good crank:
BUICK 231 V6 3.400 STROKE RPM 4340 FORGED CRANKSHAFT - eBay (item 290509415462 end time Jan-05-11 13:56:12 PST)

 

[Boost231]

Good info in here for sure. Been a lurker a lot. If you like pm me and we can talk. If I where you ask your self what I want from the car. Then find out if that's in your budget. I will guess its probably not. These motor are not cheap to build. If you want it done right I can point you in the right direction