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Billet head - design / build thread !!

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I want a set. Make afew, and I will gladly test how they work with a street driven turbo for free!!!:D

Awesome project. These dinosaur V6's aren't dead yet!
 
I have some sets of stage II heads. One set being Indy square ports. I had each style flowed and the difference was very, very slight. Mike, did you discover something different?
 
With the valve sizes you're planning to use, what minimum bore size will the heads work with?
 
Please elaborate!! Im getting an intake rocker with .265" more offset than the one pictured , which will put the tip directly over the valve tip and leave the other side & pushrod cup where it is shown. :eek::eek::eek: Mike:cool:

That's what I was seeing. Guess I didn't read all the posts close enough to know you already had that worked out.

But my mind works in strange ways, but in looking at that particular rocker one wonders, with the nose and cup being offset so far off center and in opposite directions laterally.....isn't this going to impart some serious twisting forces on the shaft, if you get my meaning?
 
But my mind works in strange ways, but in looking at that particular rocker one wonders, with the nose and cup being offset so far off center and in opposite directions laterally.....isn't this going to impart some serious twisting forces on the shaft, if you get my meaning?

Mike may have is own justification for that, but here is mine. I did a stress analyisis on some Jesel rockers for an engineering class years ago in college so I'm not pulling this out of my butt. There isn't a substantial twist problem with the rocker offset that much. When they get offset enough so that there is no overlap between the pushrod end and the valve end of the rocker then you get close to seeing some twist, but if the section between is suffeciently large it's not a problem.

The problem is side loading of the pushrod side of the rocker due to the pushrod angle. It does two things:
1. It puts a lever load sideways on the pushrod end of the rocker arm. Looking at my s2 rockers, they are as thick side to side than they are up and down in the high stress area, so technically it should still be safe. But, you when you start side loading the adjuster screw, it may be questionable. Making sure the pushrod adjuster is up inside the body of the rocker will greatly reduce the potential for failure. You really want to be sure that there is enough ball on the pushrod so that the straight/tapered side of the pushrod doesn't bind on the edge of the adjuster.

2. The other problem is the thrust load between the rockers, and from the rockers to the stand. There won't be anything to break there, but wear will go up. Mike, you may already have a solution for this, but if not. If you added forced lubrication there and/or up the surface area of the bronze spacers it should help a lot. If you add the rocker arm pressure lube port to these heads similar to the stage heads, you could drill the shaft a under the spacer bushing and lube these points pretty easily. I don't know what kind of hold down that is on the end of the shaft, but I would definetely run something like that in all positions so that you have 360 degrees of area to support the side load from the rockers. I would be glad to help with any engineering you need if you want.
 
Excellent points! Not only would the side loads on the rocker be of some concern but there are also the side loads on the other end of the rod.....lifter side loads may be something to keep an eye on.
 
Nice work, Mike!!! You going to BPG? I was planning on bringing your torque plate with me. Phil.
 
Nice work! When you first talked about making your own set, I would have never imagined how they are turning out. Not downplaying your talents, just couldn't picture it. Got to say that is amazing! The square port looks like you could shove a two liter coke bottle in there!

You can go ahead and send me a couple dozen S2 heads to lighten your shelf load since you are now going to be running your own design. ;)

Nice work brother!
 
There is medication for this obsessive behavior Mike! :biggrin:

Seriously cool project - I like it! You doing all this at home?

All the setup and planning was done here at home. The head chunk itself was set up a CNC machine in Alabama and machined as you saw first pics. Now I have to work out some of the details that we couldnt program without actually having something to look at and work with. Those problems include the valve train , pushrod holes & the biggest one is the access holes for the 3 head studs located over the intake port need to have a o-ringed plug that seals off the port to the valve cover area. Lots of problems right there as there is very little room to work with and these 1.677" springs are also leaning over the hole. I have a plan but its not proven yet. Once I get the details worked out , we will upgrade the program and let the CNC machine produce a hopefully finished product. Mike:cool:
 
With the valve sizes you're planning to use, what minimum bore size will the heads work with?

They would work on a 4.000 bore but with minimum valve to cylinder wall clearance. Could also install a smaller intake valve for a bit more clearance.
All my blocks are 4.030 bore so thats our sweet spot. Mike:cool:
 
Mike may have is own justification for that, but here is mine. I did a stress analyisis on some Jesel rockers for an engineering class years ago in college so I'm not pulling this out of my butt. There isn't a substantial twist problem with the rocker offset that much. When they get offset enough so that there is no overlap between the pushrod end and the valve end of the rocker then you get close to seeing some twist, but if the section between is suffeciently large it's not a problem.

The problem is side loading of the pushrod side of the rocker due to the pushrod angle. It does two things:
1. It puts a lever load sideways on the pushrod end of the rocker arm. Looking at my s2 rockers, they are as thick side to side than they are up and down in the high stress area, so technically it should still be safe. But, you when you start side loading the adjuster screw, it may be questionable. Making sure the pushrod adjuster is up inside the body of the rocker will greatly reduce the potential for failure. You really want to be sure that there is enough ball on the pushrod so that the straight/tapered side of the pushrod doesn't bind on the edge of the adjuster.

2. The other problem is the thrust load between the rockers, and from the rockers to the stand. There won't be anything to break there, but wear will go up. Mike, you may already have a solution for this, but if not. If you added forced lubrication there and/or up the surface area of the bronze spacers it should help a lot. If you add the rocker arm pressure lube port to these heads similar to the stage heads, you could drill the shaft a under the spacer bushing and lube these points pretty easily. I don't know what kind of hold down that is on the end of the shaft, but I would definetely run something like that in all positions so that you have 360 degrees of area to support the side load from the rockers. I would be glad to help with any engineering you need if you want.

I will be building stands similar to these out of steel and with a larger footprint to help stablize the whole shaft. There will be a hardened steel washer between the stands and rockers and a .060 washer between the rockers. Im shooting for .015" side clearance total on a pair of rockers. This may seem tight but the object is to keep the bearing sides from breaking and if buy chance they do it will contain all the bearings. This will also provide self pressurized oiling as I run over 100 psi oil pressure and 70wt oil. If this system doesnt work because of to much side loading pressure then I will machine and press in some bronze wear washers into the steel stands. Mike:cool:
 

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Excellent points! Not only would the side loads on the rocker be of some concern but there are also the side loads on the other end of the rod.....lifter side loads may be something to keep an eye on.

I run .185" offset lifters which I have been told over the years is not wise. In my hillbilly thinking it actually is better and the lifters seem to show that to be true. If you look at the angle that the pushrods leave the lifter this helps to lessen that angle. Plus it actually helps to push the lifter down more squarely in the bore in my opinion (OMG that opened up a can of worms:eek:) This new head will be pushing that theorie as the intake pushrod is at a bit more of an angle than before. Mike:cool:
 
Nice work, Mike!!! You going to BPG? I was planning on bringing your torque plate with me. Phil.

Yes I plan to be at the BPG driving Jim Rocks Beast so that would be great. To all others thanks for the praise and input so far!! Thanks Mike:cool:
 
What if you were to build an intermediate system for the pushrod system? There is a lot of empty space in the lifter valley. You could run perfectly straight pushrod angles that way.
 
What if you were to build an intermediate system for the pushrod system? There is a lot of empty space in the lifter valley. You could run perfectly straight pushrod angles that way.

Sorry , but I have no idea what that is , or how it works. Most likely I will stick with what im planning cause Im preety sure it will work and I already have all the compenents to do it that way. But im listening!! Mike:cool:
 
Something along the lines of what Ilmor/Mercedes did with their formula pushrod engine.
The assembly could drop into the lifter valley and be retained by various ways.
 
It wouldn't be easy to come up with the right design, but with all that room available in the lifter valley, something could be done. Having the room is 90% of the problem.
 
That is very impressive Mike! I can hardly wait to see the finished product!
Those would look nice on my car instead of my yearly melted GN1's.....:D
 
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