Building a better handling turbo Regal.

[TriShield]

...and I'm not talking about just for drag racing either (because I don't do that really).

What real world enhancements are available or can be done to the Regal suspension and body to make it a tighter, better handling overall car without killing the ride?

I've seen vendors selling coil springs for the front and back, various braces, swaybars, things like that.

Any suggestions on bringing the suspension up to speed?

 

[GRAYGHOST]

Upgrade all bushings to poly. Box or replace control arms, depending on how much $$$$ you want to spend. ATR rear sway bar, Eibach springs, Bilstein shocks, brace kits, front/rear. 16" or 17" wheels.
There is a whole lot of things to do, just depends on how much money you want to spend. Remember you gotta pay to play!!!

 

[TriShield]

I've been reading past threads on making the Regals handle, it sounds like I want to stay away from poly bushings and the ATR bar for my application.

I'm not willing to sacrifice much of the cars ride for handling, I'd like it to be firmer, but not crashy, bumpy and harsh.

I will probably just get all new springs, control arms, and whatever else is required.

What's the best springs and arms for street use? Eibach and Global West?

 

[JerseyGN]

I'm in the process of doing a full suspension upgrade and just want to put my .02 in regarding Global West. I purchased the lower rear control arms and front upper A-arms. The parts look like high quality pieces and I went with the del-a-lum/spherical bearings on the r. ctrl. arms for handling purposes. The problem I'm having is the sway bar mounting holes do not line up (stock ~5.5" center to center, GW ~6" center to center). The biggest problem I'm having is I've contacted them 3 times with no resolution yet. It's unfortunate that a company that makes such a high quality product doesn't understand customer service. I'm not saying to or not to use them, just letting you know my experience.

Dave

 

[TriShield]

Originally posted by JerseyGN
I'm in the process of doing a full suspension upgrade and just want to put my .02 in regarding Global West. I purchased the lower rear control arms and front upper A-arms. The parts look like high quality pieces and I went with the del-a-lum/spherical bearings on the r. ctrl. arms for handling purposes. The problem I'm having is the sway bar mounting holes do not line up (stock ~5.5" center to center, GW ~6" center to center). The biggest problem I'm having is I've contacted them 3 times with no resolution yet. It's unfortunate that a company that makes such a high quality product doesn't understand customer service. I'm not saying to or not to use them, just letting you know my experience.

Dave

I'm currently crunching numbers on upgrading the entire car over the next four months from top to bottom, inside and out.

I think I may purchase the same pieces for the suspension of my GN (which is completely bone stock), but I've already read of similar problems like this on this board.

Is your Regal stock as well? I really don't want to run into any problems during the rebuilding of this car.

 

[JerseyGN]

TriShield,

Warning....it's a long one!

I bought my car from Dennis Kirban almost 2 years ago in completely stock (except for hooker exh) form with 107,000 miles. I've purchased the Hotchkis sway bar kit (hollow front), Hotchkis springs, bilstein shocks (heard great things about them), and PST front end rebuild kit (rubber not poly). As you know I also purchased the GW front A-arms and Lower rear arms. I've tried to stay away from poly busings based on noise and binding issues (read Herb Adams Chassis Engr book). Also, if you are doing a brake upgrade you might still have time to get in on a group purchase deal set up by Rick Elam (Works for Baer and has built some real nice TR's) through Jack Cottons Performance (Do a search for Baer Group Purchase and/or call Jack). I ordered the 13" track kit with cross drilled, sloted, and zinc coated rotors with B-Body spindles (for the better camber curve) and the Baer Tracker tie rods to reduce bump steer caused by the B-body spindle. I won't be able to do the Brake upgrade until next year because I have to get 17's to fit the brakes but I figured it would be worth it to save some money know on the group purchase.

So far I've installed the rear springs and shocks but haven't put the car on the road yet. I stopped there when I noticed the GW fitment problem.

I used to have a Monte when in college and planned on doing a full Hotchkis upgrade but never did. I still have an article from Hot Rod October 1996 where they built a Monte SS with a full Hotchkis suspension, bilstein shocks, Baer 4-wheel disc and 16x8 wheels 245F/255R -50ZR16's. This car pulled .89g's on the skidpad. I figure with the del-a-lums and better weight distribution with the V-6 the GN should be in the .90G+ range.

I called GW again tonight and Doug (who I spoke with originally) was out to lunch again! I let the lady know that I was extremely displeased and that if they can't make this right I will send them back their parts and take my money back. I also told her to find the e-mail I sent and have Doug review it. In the e-mail I explained the dimensional problems in detail and made an AutoCad drawing (I'm a Mech. Engr. by trade) and then made a .jpeg of the drawing so he could see the problems. Again, a wait and see situation.

Good Luck and let me know if I can help in any other way!

Dave

 

[Bonden]

If the car is stock now, you will be happy if you add the frame and rear seat braces - they make a big difference, especially in a T roof car. Less but still noticable in a hardtop. I use Monroe sensa-tracs for shocks. I think the money I spent on this is well worth it and everything is easy to install...

HTH

 

[JerseyGN]

Good point Bonden! I have the front brace that Kirban makes with the extension arms the connect to the engine cradle. I still need to get my rear seat braces but I know from driving a G-body before that the front bar definitely makes a difference!

-Dave

 

[terryk]

I'm on the same quest. I like driving back roads more than spanking every car the comes along...Well, maybe not more but I about as much, but I digress....

I have installed *ALL* new rubber bushings front and back and up and down. New upper and lower ball joints, tie rods, link, idle and Eibachs. New, new, new.

I also installed rear seat and front frame braces (all three) and new body bushings (except the two GNX bushings).

I have Monroes on there now but I have Bilsteins to install (one is dead).

The car now handles tons better but my 86 Cutlass Ciera GT/SC with Eibachs and KYB's would leave it in the dust on the turns. It's FWD which certainly changes the road feel, but it's still better. I consider the Regal to be 85% there but it needs more work.

There is still this slight feeling that the rear differential is connected by springs to the frame. I'd like to know how to fix that. I can't imagine the car left the factory like that. BUt every Regal I've driven has that same feeling. It has a shift kit (Art Carr) and when it shifts at light throttle the differential seems to spring back. Control arms?

I have pushed the Regal pretty hard and it will only oversteer if you mash the throttle (is there a word beyond oversteer?) and the understeering is minimal. I think the balance is about right. I must say I no long worry about diving into turns. It feels very nice.

I would guess that lower profile tires will help (I have 245/60-15 all around right now).

If anyone can tell us what the next steps should be, I like to hear them!

Terry

 

[TriShield]

Originally posted by JerseyGN
TriShield,

I used to have a Monte when in college and planned on doing a full Hotchkis upgrade but never did. I still have an article from Hot Rod October 1996 where they built a Monte SS with a full Hotchkis suspension, bilstein shocks, Baer 4-wheel disc and 16x8 wheels 245F/255R -50ZR16's. This car pulled .89g's on the skidpad. I figure with the del-a-lums and better weight distribution with the V-6 the GN should be in the .90G+ range.


Dave

WOW.

I'm certainly excited, did they comment about how the car rode in routine driving?

Your story with Global West sounds similar to others on this site, which makes me apprehensive to deal with them. I might look for a good alternative if things don't pan out for you. I really don't want that kind of hassle since I'm shipping the car away from home to people that actually know what they're doing. So waiting for a solution could end up costing me money.

The suspension of the car is in very good condition now, but I'd still like to redo it, fully brace the body, replace all the bushings, upgrade the brake system, and put on a good set of 17s and Michelin Pilot tires.

 

[TriShield]

Originally posted by terryk
I'm on the same quest. I like driving back roads more than spanking every car the comes along...Well, maybe not more but I about as much, but I digress....

I agree.

If I'm going to spank another car, I'd like to start picking on Porsches, BMW M5s, that sort of car. Anything less isn't worth wasting the fuel on.

I just don't want to modify the car to the point where it would be tricky or uncomfortable to drive day to day.

 

[terryk]

With the current work on the car, I'll definitely push it. Before it would waddle all over the road. I know just replacing the normal suspension parts was 80% of the change (all original from 86). The Eibach really make it stay planted. The drop was small. Maybe 1" at best. Now to find the rattle in the dash.....

 

[AsphaltAnihil8r]

I did the B Body brake upgrade,,,I dont kbow what Bumpsteer is ,,,but can I purchase the "correct" tie rods from Hochkiss for my application,I have LE1 rotors and B body spindles ,robert adams A arms...

 

[jastrckl]

bumpsteer, afaik, is when your camber/toe (not sure which one) changes from a bump compressing the suspension, and the wheel doesn't stay parallel to the road surface anymore. I'm sure this site has some information in their traction/handling section. Speaking of handling though, anyone know a good source of front spoilers? Planning on a front mount intercooler, so it could go across where the stock dams and intercooler scoop area. I was thinking of something similar to what a 69 mach 1 has. I'd imagine that would be one of the better handling improvements at higher speeds.

 

[JerseyGN]

Terry-your car is connected to the frame by springs.;-) Anyway, I would get those bilsteins on there and see how it feels then.

I have a 99 Monte that I'm about to put some struts on and I was going to get the KYB's. Glad to hear that car really turns good. I was also thinking about doing the Eibach spring kit but I'd rather find a spring kit that doesn't lower the car if possible.

TriShield-The article only mentioned that Hotchkis cut an extra half coil off the front springs for this project to get the ride height even lower. This put the suspension with-in 3/4" away from the factory bumpstops which can make day-to-day driving somewhat bone jarring. If you go to the Hotchkis site and go to the online catalog for our G-bodies there is a picture of the G-Force Monte project from Hot Rod.

Also, in Herb Adams book he speaks of using the nylon and spherical bearings suspension bushings will usually increase the impact harshness to the same degree as adding 5 psi to your car's tire pressure. Basically he says if you don't drive your car hard or in competition they probably aren't worth it. But if you do, it will make a difference.

Bump Steer is how much and in which direction the toe changes during suspension travel. A little bump steer is typical and really not noticable. Most who do the B-Body spindle upgrade don't even complain based on the better handling gained from doing the swap. The reason the swap causes bump steer is because the B-body spindle changes the location of the outer tie-rod and changes the geometry of the steering linkage. Baer makes an adjustable outer tie-rod that helps change this geometry to avoid bumpsteer. I was unaware that Hotchkis makes anything to fix this like mentioned in another post here. I'd love to hear more about this!

-Dave

 

[terryk]

Originally posted by JerseyGN
Terry-your car is connected to the frame by springs.;-) Anyway, I would get those bilsteins on there and see how it feels then.

. . . . . . .

-Dave

What springs? There are springs under there!!!!?????

I guess I want the differential to feel connected to the frame/body more like the FWD unitized chassis. Alas......

Hey, it actually fun to drive now though.

I can't speak for the 99 W body drop with Eibachs (I have 2000 GTP) but I doubt it would be much more than a inch. It definitely improves the handling and body roll.

Terry

 

[WILD6]

EIBACH only drops 1" on the front and 3/4" on the back.
I cut half a coil 8" ( front) around the spring drop unoder 1 1/4".
tire to fender is 1.5 (sweet)

kby shocks seem to be doing ther job.
I have no problem with my poly body bushings.
YES 245 45 17 on front and 275 40 17 on rear realy help.

hollow 36mm sway bar(14lbs), a tight fit but it works.
The 34 is 12lbs.

 

[JerseyGN]

TriShield,

Just an update on the situation. Still no response from GW. I sent them another E-mail today letting them know that if they do not take any action to resolve the issue that I will be contacting the Better Business Buearu.

Regards,

Dave

 

[zam70]

Eiback springs
ATR rear swaybar F-body hollow front
All polygraphite suspension bushings
Poly body bushings
all body braces
245 50 16 tires

I will take on any F-body through the twistys AND have a better ride to boot.

As far as the poly bushings being noisy...not a peep out of mine


Did i mention it's a T-top?

 

[UNGN]

Originally posted by TriShield
I've been reading past threads on making the Regals handle, it sounds like I want to stay away from poly bushings and the ATR bar for my application.

I'm not willing to sacrifice much of the cars ride for handling, I'd like it to be firmer, but not crashy, bumpy and harsh.

The ATR rear bar and a polygraphite frontend rebuild will give night and day handling vs. stock.

I don't know whose threads you've read, but unless you are trying to actually road race your car, on a track, with other cars, the above are pretty good mods. Neither will make the ride crashy or harsh. Both improve the feel and handling of a stock GN. Both together will allow 15-20 more mph on your favorite on ramp vs. a stock GN.

Will your car oversteer? Yes. Will your car oversteer more than a mustang? No.

Even on an open road race car, I'd have no problems with an ATR rear bar or Polygraphite front end kit.

Full poly frame mounts will harshen the ride, but just replacing the 6 missing lower mounts is a good up grade over stock that you can feel. Bilsteins are a good shock for the money and the eibach spring package is good for those who don't want to try a bunch of different moog springs until they find the ones they like.