co2 intercooler sprayer

[Adam Connell]

It's not so much that it will or wont work. While you could do on the street, spraying anything external to the engine is not allowed on the track(s).

Ever seen a Nitrous Purge? That is what this is. It's just a purge onto your intercooler.

 

[Fenrir]

Even spraying it down in the staging lanes/burnout box could be ineffective. How hot is the intercooler after doing a burnout? Even if you get the temps down how quickly will it rise during the run? Will you even get an 1/8th mile in? I think the money could be spent wisely elsewhere.

 

[badgrandntl]

It their kit from Design Engineering, Inc. - DEI - CryO2 & Thermal Tuning Products it looks like there are no holes in the intercooler ring or am I blind? So does the ring just get real cold and help to absorb the heat? Just curious. Thanks Scott

 

[Grumpy]

the wheel is round !!! get over it ... like others have said ..your not goin to spray it at the track ... ummm second thought buy it and show us old timers "how it's done"

 

[Adam Connell]

the wheel is round !!! get over it ... like others have said ..your not goin to spray it at the track ... ummm second thought buy it and show us old timers "how it's done"

Innovation my friend... those with the time, the money, and who think outside the box will always be leaders and innovators... years ago people said Alky woulnt work and race gas was the only way to go....

then again people also said man would never fly...

Maybe Im just young and dont understand why being closed minded works so well for some people...

 

[Adam Connell]

Even spraying it down in the staging lanes/burnout box could be ineffective. How hot is the intercooler after doing a burnout? Even if you get the temps down how quickly will it rise during the run? Will you even get an 1/8th mile in? I think the money could be spent wisely elsewhere.

The first 1/8 mile is where the race is won son...


Maybe people just dont understand how these work... just sit back and wait. They will gain popularity, more companies will make them and market them harder. Just wait... Im tired of arguing with people Im not going to convince.

 

[Fenrir]

Can't argue with numbers. So we just need someone to do some testing and post up the numbers.

But I've talked with Top Gun about it before who has tried it in the past and came to the same conclusion.

 

[turbofabricator]

Ok, I'll bite. Being that the N20 or CO2 WILL make the IC more effiecient, why not save yourself alot of money (over time) and buy a liquid to air I/C and use dry ice and alcohol for cooling media? Or just plain ice water. I'm not saying that the spray bar deal won't work, but you will spend a TON of money over time filling that bottle. I would prefere to inject the N20 INTO the engine for even more gains. (yes, I do know a bit about N20, as I use to build 5,000+hp nitrous engines, that also used water methanol injection) I really feel that the latest alky stuff out there is the best bang for the buck for turbo improvement. The spray bar deal WILL work, though, but at what TOTAL cost over time. There are bigger fish to fry with our hard earned money. If you have done all the mods to your car and are looking for that few horsepower edge, then step up and buy a spray bar set-up. I am not an "in-the-box" kind of guy (just look at my car ). I just analiyze things with vast racing experience, and a "slightly" twisted approach. One benifit of the spray bar deal is better 60 ft times! It will block out the eye-beams and give you a rear wheel start, or maybe even a rear bumper start! (didn't Jimmy D' have like a 1.03 60 ft time on his "record" run?:biggrin:

 

[yullose]

I couldn't figure out why some of the links on the first page were dead... then I looked at the post dates...

Another thread brought back from the dead....

I actually find it incredibly amusing to see quotes, replies, answers etc... to statements made 4 years ago.

ORIGINAL POST: April 23rd, 2003, 02:03 PM

 

[turbogreg]

bringing this back from the dead. looking into a small shot(50ish) or IC sprayer for the GN. will be doing the ported irons and roller cam next month and trying to milk some extra power. i love my new 6776dbb turbo with the 3200 and will be keeping this setup for a long time. anyone ever do the IC sprayer over the least few years this thread has been going on? yes i am running a razor's progressive alky kit as well. ha, any company wanna give me one of their kits and i'll post some numbers for everyone


Greg

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Adam, you should talk to Julio about alcohol injection, your statements about it are a bit off.

CO2 on intercooler pipes sounds like a horrible waste of money to me.
( Turbofabricator, please comment on this aspect of heat transfer ).

 

[twin 93 svt]

A few years ago I had a pte intercooler outfitted with a spray bar setup for co2. The inlet temps were down in the 40 deg range at the end of the run on a 80 deg day. The problem was the engine pulling in the vaporized co2 off of the intercooler choking the motor. 10 pounds of co2 may get you one pass, I was using a 15 pound tank to freeze down the intercooler before the pass. If you have an unlimited supply of co2 it works great, plan on having quite a few tanks if you are looking for results.

had the same thing happen with ours, sucking in co2 and choking motor, but nitrous in the same spray bar did net 40 to 50 h.p.

 

[Daniel Jost]

I was going to spray my intercooler with my already installed NX nitrous kit, with the stuff im reading maybe ill try it once and if it isnt worth it ill take off the spray bar and just run my purge to the IC, so the purge at the beggining isnt wasted!

,Dan

 

[turbofabricator]

Adam, you should talk to Julio about alcohol injection, your statements about it are a bit off.

CO2 on intercooler pipes sounds like a horrible waste of money to me.
( Turbofabricator, please comment on this aspect of heat transfer ).

My biggest concern with CO2 is with KILLING the engine when it sprays. No real good way to prevent ALL the CO2 from getting into the air filter. If the intercooler core is VERY cold, that is a good thing. TOO cold and any water vapor in the air (humidity) and it "could" freeze up in the core and restrict flow. I think that N20 INTO the engine is a MUCH better way of cooling the intake charge temps. Most of the FAST turbo guys (1600+ hp) use liquid to air I/C's and that is worth alot of power. I personally feel that a spray bar on the intercooler will make some power, but spraying Nitrous into the engine will make ALOT of power. Most turbo Buick guys are afraid of Nitrous Oxide. Used and tuned properly, it will make a TON of power. Mess up with it and your pistons will look like this: That was a N2O valve failure there, not tune up. (valve stuck open) It was made in 1945, and killed in 1985.:biggrin: (Those 60+ yr. old pistons are some of the best ever made) (alloy)

 

[cabech984]

Subaru WRX STi's come stock with a water sprayer attached, would this be illegal for track purposes? Its not illegal on the streets. True, its not CO2 or Nitrous, but it does spray externally.

 

[SouthernCal GN]

No, Alky esentially just raises the car's gas octane rating. Methanol has an equivalent octane rating of 120+ so spraying it into the air fuel mix and taking out part of the fuel just raises the "octane". Also Alky helps to atomize the air fuel mix better. The cooling effect is a nice biproduct, but it isnt what controls detonation.

Honestly, I think there is a lot of potential with an alky sprayer combined with a small shot of nitrous(say a 30hp shot) On our cars it would be worth 50-75hp. Combine that with the intercooler sprayer and you might be looking at 100+hp without actually doing anything to your engine or turbo(other than tuning). Also with nitrous being sprayed into the engine you could run a turbo that would normally require a 3000+ stall on a stock stall converter. Multiple power adders done right can produce insane **streetable** horsepower. I just dont get why people go out and buy parts that make their cars sluggish on the street when they drive it every day. Throwing on a huge turbo and a huge stall are great for the track, but suck balls on the street. I drove a car a few weeks ago with a 3400 stall and a much larger turbo. The guy said it put down around 650 or so to the wheels, but it was so damn sluggish and laggy that I wouldnt want to drive that thing every day. Maybe my goals are different than other peoples, but I want an all around good feeling car with a very broad power band. I guess I just like N/A and blown cars too much

Seriously though, I keep hearing numbers of 30-50whp from super chilling your intercooler. I didnt believe it either until I went for a ride in a car equiped with a sprayer... This was a 350whp neon srt-4... This is definately a good trick for street racers, and it has already been proven at the track. No matter how efficient your intercooler may be, this WILL drop your intake temps. It only makes the intercooler work better.


Also on a side note: If you dont want to get CO2 in your engine at the line then freeze the intercooler in the stagin lanes or in the burn out box. With a nitrous sprayer it wouldnt be a problem though...

You need to go back to chemistry class, as you really don't know squat about what methanol does. All alcohols (meth, ethanol, isopropyl, denatured) are all highly effective in preventing detonation, more so by the cooling effect of the alky than the additional fule provided: before you shoot me down and say I'm full of bull, read this white paper from MIT:

http://www.psfc.mit.edu/library1/catalog/reports/2000/06ja/06ja002/06ja002_full.pdf

As far as cooling the IC- I agree, using co2 or no2 to chill the IC will chill the inlet air- for a very short period of time, unless you're going to be spraying the IC all the time. Seems like a waste of $$- more like snake oil than a real power adder. It's not just the temp of the intake charge- it's the VOLUME of air that creates the hp.

I run a 3500 stall non lockup with a PT-54, and have no issues with daily driving. Many cars putting down 450+ hp with similar combos, daily driven.

I'd say if you believe in what you're proposing- then put it together and run the numbers. Nothing like good data to support an idea! As far as the 'old farts' are concerned- back up your talk with info! Better yet, put your $$ where your mouth is, and make it happen.

Nothing worse that a young punk that pisses fire and knows it all.....:biggrin:


Signed,

Old Fart

 

[notacarlo]

If ice or any liquid hits the track surface, it's a one way ticket to the exit gate. One of the "founding" tubo Buick gods (can't remember if it was Ken or Conley) got booted from a track event because the C02 formed ice on the intercooler and pieces droped to the pavement. Automatic DQ.

 

[SloGN]

I can see that a I/C sprayer could work great for achieving big #'s on a dyno where the dyno bay is hotter than outside air due to building type/ventalation not to mention the car running inside the building.

So i could see that the sprayer could make a vast improvement in power #'s. Those power #'s don't win races in my book.


I wanna see if those gain can be held up during the same boost levels at a race track where the outside air temp is the same as the temp in the dyno bay.

make 2 runs with no spray on the i/c. Note_ please allow the car to cool down for 30 mins .


then make 2 more runs using the I/C spray and note the actual gains in E.T/mph to see if they are inline with the added hp gain from the dyno.


I really can't see how the sprayer would be effective at speeds over 30 mph then your just wasting it causing the heat vaporazation level will be reduced by the fact of it don't have time to cool the i/c, or assrb any heat. how ever you guys want to say it.


I'm not a engineer by any means but lets have some common sense.

I'm glad that there are innovators out there.



Go to the nopi car shows and you will see that the co2 sprayers work great in a car show.

 

[thunderace31]

Well said I like the GN boards seems like you guys are some really smart people!



Chris R

Well ya we are smarter than the import nut balls lol
Age has its benifits lol we are on avarge 2 times the age of a ricer person!

 

[thunderace31]

If ice or any liquid hits the track surface, it's a one way ticket to the exit gate. One of the "founding" tubo Buick gods (can't remember if it was Ken or Conley) got booted from a track event because the C02 formed ice on the intercooler and pieces droped to the pavement. Automatic DQ.

I remeber this! Wasnt good they could have won the event!

I think what you want to do is spray it right after your burnout and heading to the line.
Spray stage and go wouldnt give them enough time to see anything!

I have seen a few Ricers around here tha have had the N20 set ups with small turbos the one guy claims to be going 11's when he runs it and cant get out of the 12's if he dosnt spray it down before a run.

As for using with and alky system I think you would still pick up some big #'s and could probly use a little less Alky (Witch in my area cost an arm and a leg!) Netting you an even better time. Im all about cheap HP so Ill be playing with as soon as I get my HR Parts and Stuff bar on the back end