Do we own the last true muscle cars?

[turboc87gn]

Thats why I say steel bumper.

The regal makes it while the MC ss doesn't


...

I say all g bodys are the last muscle cars chrome bumpers and poopy handling from the factory but good str8 line performance sounds like a musclecar to me all we gotta so is start rollin cig packs in our t shirt sleeves lol

 

[88 CuttyClassic]

Sorry, but in IMOH a four door doesn't count as a muscle car.

well the conversation seemed loose and wasnt sticking to the purest definition of a muscle car... if you wanna go that way...muscle cars died with the big block. GN doesnt fit the "muscle car" definition.

A muscle car, by the strictest definition, is an intermediate sized, performance oriented model, powered by a large V8 engine, at an affordable price. Most of these models were based on "regular" production vehicles. These vehicles are generally not considered muscle cars, even when equipped with large V8s. If there was a high performance version available, it gets the credit, and not the vehicle that it was based on.

Examples: Buick GS, Chevrolete Chevelle SS, Dodge Charger R/T, Ford Torino/Cobra, Plymouth GTX, Plymouth Road Runner, Oldsmobile 442, Pontiac GTO

 

[mr_nate]

a GN is probably one of the most difficult cars to classify and group with other cars...
If your definition of a muscle car is a RWD car with big power and poor handling, the GN would be a good candidate...

 

[1LowLeSabre]

Wait wait wait!

You guys keep bringing up crapping handling. WHAT muscle car from the '60 ever had good handling?

Have you ever tried taking a corner at any rate of speed in a '69 SS396 Chevelle?

 

[03FatBoy]

To me the last year of the traditional "muscle car" was 1970, last year of the factory high compression motors.
Sure, a lot of the 71 and 72 motors still had lots of power, there is nothing like the old high compression cars. Pontiac also had one of the last with the 73 Super Duty.
There have been more "muscle cars" since, our Buick's certainly qualify, and there will continue to be "muscle cars" for quite some time.
I always thought big engine, small car described a muscle car. Then again my GN is a little engine, big car!

my 2 cents worth...

 

[it's just a six]

How about one of these?

GMC Syclone - AutomoBear.com

 

[1LowLeSabre]

1989 Chrysler TC by Maserati

 

[88 CuttyClassic]

just because one thing is a muscle car and one is a sports car and another is a performance car doesnt mean anyone is less. i wouldnt call a GN a pure muscle car but thats dont mean i dont think its bad as ****... just means that its not a 60's 70's big cube hunk of steel. i wouldnt call my ss or my hurst a muscle car the GN is definetly a perfomance vehical...the ss the hurst are more a specialty car.

 

[BAGN]

all we gotta do is start rollin cig packs in our t shirt sleeves lol

Who says I haven't already...J/K (good one turboc87gn)

Here is my 2 cents...

In high school (1991) I drove a 1972 GS Stage 1 (True Muscle Car) and I have owened 2 GN's (still have one) and spent 20 years of my life making a living working on them. I feel that the 86/86 Turbo Reagal is as close as you can get to a muscle car (post late 70's). As for as todays cars, I think Turbo-Archie said it best..."simple definition of a true muscle car is that it must have a chrome / steel bumper. New Camaro's and Corvette's are sports cars...."

One thing I can say is, Nothing beats ideling/thumping through a parking lot in a early 70's big block that turns everybodys head. Man I sure miss my Stage 1 :frown: But I sure do love my Bad Ass Grand National!!!

 

[Quik Six]

The Grand Nationals caught my attention in early 90's and I've owned one for the past 10 years. The main reason I like them was that they are quite unique because of what they are and what they can do.

Name another car that can be driven 135 miles to a race track in 100+ weather, carry slicks, jack, tools, etc in the trunk, cruise at 80 MPH while runnning the AC, istening to the radio while the cruise control does it's job, make 9 passes at the track, run 11:44 in street trim and get held to that time because no roll bar, pack it up and drive 135 miles home and never go to the gas station.

If you've got a sub 11 second car, how many cars would you back down from if they challenged you on the street?

How often do you get a big thumbs up from another car person when you are cruising around?

How many times have you had to prove that it was "only a V6" ?

Personally, I think the Buick turbo cars were a step forward for muscle cars.

Quik Six

 

[SilverSleeper]

That depends on what your definition of "Is", is.

Its like trying to classify music. There are so many variations of rock, that some bands fit many molds.
All depends on how you define it.

Someone mentioned full frame. So, the early Camaro and Firebirds weren't musclecars? Anything with a subframe doesn't count now?

I think the new Challenger is a musclecar. I got the chance to see an 09 RT up close yesterday. I'd call it just as much a musclecar as our TR's.

If badging were a requirement, what about the T package Regal with the 307?

What about the older El Caminos? Musclecar? Not? Truck? Car? Who knows.

Without a real "etched in stone" definition, you can't classify something. Then its just a matter of opinion.

 

[Weester]

Muscle cars started with the GTO and ended in 1975 when the smog laws gutted them. Of all the "New" cars to be considered a muscle car, I would pick the Dodge Viper............No frills with a monster motor.

 

["Turbo-T"]

Someone mentioned full frame. So, the early Camaro and Firebirds weren't musclecars? Anything with a subframe doesn't count now?

If badging were a requirement, what about the T package Regal with the 307?

What about the older El Caminos? Musclecar? Not? Truck? Car? Who knows.

Camaros and Firebirds were pony cars, or cars for the youth crowd.

El Caminos were considered trucks made out of lopping off the rear of a station wagon.

Regal T's with the 307 option were just a sportified luxury car.

 

[1LowLeSabre]

Full frames have nothing to do with this. You guys are forgetting L78 Big block Nova's. That's a true muscle car.

 

[novaderrik]

Thats why I say steel bumper.

The regal makes it while the MC ss doesn't


...

then this is not a muscle car, unless the bumper on the back counts:

how about a 74 Laguna S3 with a 454? plastic bumper, big motor. sure, they were gutless as delivered, but ditching all the primitive smog devices of the time anda set of headers and some header mount glasspacks took care of that problem.
the Plymouth Superbird, with it's long pointy non chrome nose, huge wing, and wicked 440 six pak or 426 hemi doesn't qualify as a musclecar under your definition, either.

i don't see the turbocharged G bodies as being "muscle cars" in the original sense. sure, they are fairly quick American made mid size 2 door cars, but they have a whole different aura around them than the nasty V8 monstrosities of the late 60's/early 70's. it's not just that they are too refined or anything like that, but rather that they are just too different and come from a different era. maybe if Buick had offered a model with heater and radio delete with no power steering or brakes and an almost total lack of sound deadener with utilitarian seats, then maybe they might feel the same. but they didn't, so they don't.