E85 effects after 1 seson

[TurboBuRick]

With the new fuel growing in popularity, the effect of e85 on internal engine parts should be a area of concern.

Recently I took apart a 109 that has been on e85 only 1 season. What I found inside was orange tinted cylinder walls, white snots in crankcase and severely pitted turbo exhaust housing. The stuff is evil.

Anyone parking a e85 car for the winter should consider flushing out fuel system and running a good amount of 93oct through the motor before putting away.

Rick

 

[m3x1c0]

Was it from sitting too long?

 

[87chrisss]

Hey Rick, how did the fuel system look? The Ethanol will easily break down petroleum sedimentation that you would usually find on 93 Unleaded. For example when a gas tank or fuel container that contained pump gas is dried out it usually leaves behind a sandy type residue. The Ethanol introduced to an old tank or fuel system wil break the sediment down and it will be mixed with the fuel.

I highly doubt its the actual E85 fuel.. Newer car's run on this stuff daily they dont have 28 years of petroleum sitting in there fuel system either. Im really not sure exactly what the E85 might do to older valves with heavy carbon deposits but im sure the Ethanol breaks that junk down and ends up on Cylinder walls piston rings and plugs... E85 is an awesome fuel when compared to what regular pump gas does to your engine after just a few thousand miles..

 

[turbodave231]

Rick,

100% agree with you. This fuel is very aggressive. It will eat most metals and destroys rubber. The fuel will go "Bad" in less than 30 days if allowed to sit.

Can you post up any pictures?

Dave

 

[87chrisss]

Thats interesting i didn't know fuel goes "BAD" from my research on my own car it actually fermented and raised the alcohol content a few points from E85 to E87 -E88 when tested i have some now sitting in my gas tank for about 2 months i can test it for you guys.. Well maybe it did go bad from sitting and raised the content from E85 to a little higher.. i guess in that perspective it did go bad but really its better that it raised alcohol content. Not sure what you mean by bad

 

[MikeL.]

My findings as well. I had my fuel increase in alcohol content from 85% to 90% when it sits for 60 days. I then drain the tank put in my flex fuel van.

I'm moving to a new turbo and will inspect the turbine side to see if I have the same pitting effect. On e85 three years here.

 

[turbodave231]

Look at a sample of E-85 that has sat around for awhile. It gets cloudy, from what I've seen. it is a fact that alcohol absorbs water.......not sure about any fermenting going on....... need live organisms and sugar to ferment alcohol. Maybe the 15% gasoline just evaporates????

Guys who run straight methanol know about the short shelf life of alcohol fuels. They empty their tanks and lines after every race and change their oil. If they don't, they eventually have big problems. And Yes, I know E-85 isn't methanol.......but the same problems exist for ethanol based fuel.

New cars are specifically designed to run E-85. Nickel plated steel fuel lines, specific injectors and pumps designed to handle the effects of ethanol.

I am currently going through an "E-85" Brand Name carb that has been badly affected by E-85 sitting in the fuel system.

 

[87chrisss]

I know content and fuel can vary from state to state or weather & elevation. Most times its hard for me to swallow the problems guys have with this fuel. I wish you guys would be in Miami because i have over 10 friends on E85 & we have never had the issues. Honestly not one issue with the fuel. Stock lines even with stock filters.. Quite the contrary it cleans your fuel system and engine. Pump gas is really the dirty child.

To be honest while guys are worried about an E85 special Pumps i have used some old RA double pumps some regular modified walbros from Red and they have done just fine for over a year on the Ethanol..

 

[robzombie]

With the new fuel growing in popularity, the effect of e85 on internal engine parts should be a area of concern.

Recently I took apart a 109 that has been on e85 only 1 season. What I found inside was orange tinted cylinder walls, white snots in crankcase and severely pitted turbo exhaust housing. The stuff is evil.

Anyone parking a e85 car for the winter should consider flushing out fuel system and running a good amount of 93oct through the motor before putting away.

Rick

I agree with you on the detriments of running E85 and the effects that it can have on the parts.

There is a lot of disinformation out there from some that run it either because they are clueless, selling/installing E85 kits or to embarrassed to share their info after dumping the money for the conversion.

The facts are that alky in any form is corrosive and hydroscopic, and when run as a primary fuel versus spraying it when needed will cause more problems sooner.

E85 will also absorb moisture/water and if left to sit can cause major rust and pitting problems.

I would consider E85 only if I was running a car strictly at the track, it does have many advantages in a performance/cost perspective but as with most any performance mod they all have their pros and cons and should be evaluated to make sure you know what to expect and how to deal with it so it doesn't become a problem for you in the future.

Doing exactly what you recommend, running 93 through the system to clear out the alky should be a must even on a daily driver to make sure you don't get water/corrosive properties built up in the system and to drive out the water/corrosive crap that has already accumulated.

 

[turbodave231]

Chris, you might want to visit with the guys who clean injectors on a flow bench......They see the problems created by E-85 first hand.

I built a guy a new engine package last year. He ran nothing but E-85. I reused his 120# injectors. Two of the six injectors were 100% stuck shut and the rest were severely restricted. It was a darn good thing I sent the injectors out for cleaning/testing or he would have blown the new engine up and then blamed the problem on me.

I'm glad to hear that you like E-85. It has lots of advantages.......... But I won't ever run it in my car because I don't drive it enough. It would sit too long with that stuff in the tank.

When I was running my S2 car, I considered switching to E-85, but I've tested the fuel that I bought at the pump. The alcohol content varied WIDELY!!! Buying E-85 at the pump can be dicey!! Buying it in a drum from VP? that would be the only way I would race on E-85, or methanol.

 

[TurboBuRick]

Here are a few pics.

 

[BEATAV8]

Chuck just checked my 120's and they were perfect after running (and sitting) for several seasons on E85. We definitely have a mixed bag of results!

 

[m3x1c0]

Chuck just checked my 120's and they were perfect after running (and sitting) for several seasons on E85. We definitely have a mixed bag of results!

Go see my engine build page. Mine was running E85 before I got it and other then needing new fuel pumps the engine was in great condition

 

[87chrisss]

Dave, what boggles me is how come so many can use the fuel with no issues? But some have complete nightmares with it? Is it really the fuel? i wonder if the fuel you guys have trouble with is from the same batch that i get? Or same manufacturer.

Could it be a different make or model or manufacturer of the fuel for colder climate? Different process to make it? Or a different additive?!

Its an interesting subject that i have pondered with for a while. I really gain nothing by hiding an issue or just hide the fact that i have had one.. I really havent had not one issue with the fuel. I buy it pump from UGAS. Never seen a member here local to me have an issue with it. I have even stopped buying special filters aymore.. As a test i asked for a filter from at the autoparts for a flex fueld vehicle just to sample if it were different.. it was the exact same thing as a non flex fueled vehicle! I said the hell with the stainless steel 120 aeromotive im using AC delco..

Guys Ethanol has been introduced to pump gas for a very long time now.. Recently it has been stated at pump up to 10% is ran in every single vehicle in the states. Ethanol is not that bad. Sorry to hear you guys have these horror stories but i haven't had any.. So for me its PRO E85 its a good argument but no ill effects on the stuff for me never! i guess knock on wood

 

[BEATAV8]

Go see my engine build page. Mine was running E85 before I got it and other then needing new fuel pumps the engine was in great condition

Me too. Just had mine apart after 5 years of running and everything was clean and happy.

 

[turbo96max]

I have my heads off now ill post some pics. Going on 3 yrs now. No pitting or crazy color on turbo housing. Car sits a lot. Drives maybe 2-3 times a month. Only issue me and locals found is gooo from stock fuel lines build up in the head runners. Fix is replace the lines or ehat im doing is cleaning injectors ever 2 yrs or so. After almost 3 yrs im now cleaning them as a precaution. Last month the car ran 123 mph afrs 11.2s no clogged up injectors here. But the goo is real

 

[monteperformanc]

I took my turbo off after 1.5 years on e85 and it looked perfect. I have been running it 2+ years with no issues. Does anyone have any real evidence that it causes all these problems? Like a side-by-side comparison of the same parts run for a certain time on e85 vs the same time on 93?

 

[earlbrown]

Hard to have comparison evidence when you're starting with a 20 year old car.


What would be nice is if the IRS didn't swing such a heavy hammer. Ethanol makes a great fuel when you're not forced to go through heroics so you can add 85octane crap gas to it.


and it can't continue to ferment, the hardiest of yeast die of alcohol poisoning around 20%.

 

[turbodave231]

I just finished disassembling this Quick Fuel E-85 Specific carb installed on a 23 T bucket. The engine was a "No Start" due to fuel problems. I have been working on Holley carbs (Ancient Calibrated leak devices) for well over 30 years and I've never, ever, seen this type of problem with gasoline or even E10 gasoline.

Most of the Holley carbs I've worked on didn't have all the special plating and parts that this one has. Check out the last picture of the bolts that hold the float bowls in place. Notice how the plating is GONE on the lower four bolts. Look at the pictures and decide for yourself.......Is E-85 really corrosive or is it all alot of HUEY?

 

[626gn]

Ethanol is used in many things we consume (vodka) and use on our bodies (face creams, lotions, sanitizers, etc) everyday. It's also an FDA approved ingredient. IMO, I don't think the problem is with ethanol itself but rather the other unknown additives oil companies put into our fuel. From what I understand the additive package varies from company to company and state to state which may explain why we are seeing such mixed results with its use. Many are quick to blame ethanol for whatever problems they're having. That's understandable because that's the one advertised ingredient everywhere you fill up. I think the question everyone should be asking is what else, besides ethanol, is being added to our fuels. I would venture to say THAT'S where things start to get really interesting...

We have an shop here with e100 in a plastic container filled with rubber hoses and different types of metals. This container has been sitting on the front counter of this shop for years (I want to say at least 7 but not sure) for all to see and inspect. To date there have been no visible degradation to any of the materials in the container caused by ethanol...It's a simple experiment that confirms, for me, that the ethanol itself may not be the one to blame for every problem people are having. There are certainly some do's and don'ts when using this fuel but I don't feel ethanol deserves the bad rep that it has for some.

I too have been using ethanol for years, in fact 87geein just dropped my tank to install a new pump this past weekend. I think we found one speck of debris but not much else in the way of negative effects caused by ethanol.