What do you think is keeping me from adjusting the fan settings myself?
EBL SFI-6
- Thread starter QwikStop
- Start date
Street Lethal
Tech Anarchist
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
Bud, I just looked at the picture you posted. Go into your control panel, uninstall Tuner Pro, then reinstall Tuner Pro RT. Regular Tuner Pro is for emulating, you don't need that. Install Tuner Pro RT, second one down in the link below. You don't need to donate anything, that is optional. All the donation does is get rid of the annoying count down box everytime you log into it...
http://www.tunerpro.net/downloadApp.htm
http://www.tunerpro.net/downloadApp.htm
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Yes, I tune my friends car by email correspondence. He emails the datalog, and I send back changes. Pretty simple.
ok, i uninstalled tuner pro and installed tuner pro rt...i noticed it has a few additions but i get the same message about not being able to change or save the bin although im am able to flash in new VE learns and save them.
Would you need just a steady throttle data log or something showing boost and alot of throttle or?
Once again guys i cant tell you how much i appreciate the help.
Street Lethal
Tech Anarchist
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
Bud, the bin(s) that Dynamic EFI provide are protected and cannot be changed. Put the new bin that you saved into Tuner Pro RT that was VE Learned from the one that came with the system and modify that one. If it still doesn't work, show me another full screen print of the error message....
Thats exactly what im doing wrong, Damn. Thank you again.
Yep, that was it...im now able to make changes and save the bin. Im getting there guys ,dont give up yet...
It depends on what you are working on at that particular time. For example, trying to nail down a fuel issue at a certain RPM/Boost. My friend will record a 30 minute driving session that will capture most phases of drivability and then call me up and tell me if there were any drivability issues in part or full throttle conditions, then Ill look at the log to find what he described. Glad you figured out how to edit the bin!
Hows everyone doing? I was able to get some track time in this past weekend and although my car ran well and felt good it was a second slower and lost 11 mph.....i went from running a Precision 6152e, 50# MSDs, 85mm MAF, 255 lph Walbro, Alky Control and Turbo Tweak chip--11.23 @ 122 mph......to my new combo Precision 6265, 60 lbs Siemens, Dynamic EFI, TT340 lph, Alky control--12.1 @ 111 mph....I dont know what to change, Hell, ive ran the battery down several times on my lap top looking at all the numbers in all the parameters trying to figure out whats what....maybe im just over thinking what needs to be done...i dont even know what questions to ask,,,Man i get discouraged too fast
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
Well you changed the turbo, you changed the injectors and you put a bigger fuel pump in it. So yes you have some tuning to do.
I would back down the turbo to 10 psi and run it at that level to see what is happening. My guess? You are super rich with the fuel pump and maybe injectors. If you kept static fuel pressure the same before you changed the pump out you may be seeing more volume to the injectors. 10 psi is safe and you can trim out fuel from there and get it back to its happy place and then crank it up again, slowly.
What do your AF ratios look like through the rpm ranges?
Remember the chip was doing all of this for you. Now you are able to see what is going on but YOU have to make the changes to the AF tables to get the ratios right.
I would back down the turbo to 10 psi and run it at that level to see what is happening. My guess? You are super rich with the fuel pump and maybe injectors. If you kept static fuel pressure the same before you changed the pump out you may be seeing more volume to the injectors. 10 psi is safe and you can trim out fuel from there and get it back to its happy place and then crank it up again, slowly.
What do your AF ratios look like through the rpm ranges?
Remember the chip was doing all of this for you. Now you are able to see what is going on but YOU have to make the changes to the AF tables to get the ratios right.
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
The reason I suggested 10 psi was because the alky kit will not come on below 8 psi unless you have changed it.
You can still datalog and tune below that and get good data but once the alky comes back in the picture you will need to trim out the AF ratios. Example: lets say you ran just gas on the car and that was it. You would be going for an AF ratio of about 11 to 1 under full throttle and higher boost levels. Once you add the alky you have twice as much fuel going through the motor and the AF ratios will go to 9 to 1 or less numerically( meaning richer). And all of a sudden the car runs like shit. Sound familiar?
So you control this by reducing the VE tables meaning you are running less duty cycle on the injectors because you now have a second fuel system that sprays methanol into the manifold. Your injectors are controlled electronically while the alky uses a voltage signal from the MAP sensor to turn it on and how much pressure the pump makes. The higher the MAP sensor voltage reading is the more the pump is going to inject into the manifold. One system is electronic ( injectors and ECM) the other is mechanical ( massive pump and single nozzle).
Leave the alky kit set at 6 on the gain knob and leave it alone. Make your changes to the injectors on the AF tables.
The trick is always to find the right mixture of both to get to the AF ratios of 11 to 1 or maybe a little richer to make the power.
I hope this helps.
You can still datalog and tune below that and get good data but once the alky comes back in the picture you will need to trim out the AF ratios. Example: lets say you ran just gas on the car and that was it. You would be going for an AF ratio of about 11 to 1 under full throttle and higher boost levels. Once you add the alky you have twice as much fuel going through the motor and the AF ratios will go to 9 to 1 or less numerically( meaning richer). And all of a sudden the car runs like shit. Sound familiar?
So you control this by reducing the VE tables meaning you are running less duty cycle on the injectors because you now have a second fuel system that sprays methanol into the manifold. Your injectors are controlled electronically while the alky uses a voltage signal from the MAP sensor to turn it on and how much pressure the pump makes. The higher the MAP sensor voltage reading is the more the pump is going to inject into the manifold. One system is electronic ( injectors and ECM) the other is mechanical ( massive pump and single nozzle).
Leave the alky kit set at 6 on the gain knob and leave it alone. Make your changes to the injectors on the AF tables.
The trick is always to find the right mixture of both to get to the AF ratios of 11 to 1 or maybe a little richer to make the power.
I hope this helps.
It does help, thanks......i guess i just want things to happen too fast, patience is not on my side when it comes to this.
RmvBfrFlght
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2007
Bud, you are getting good advice from Reggie. One thing that needs to be covered is the fueling pre-boost, and then when in boost. The VE table only covers up to barometric pressure (vacuum to atmospheric). Need to tune in the VE table first, then work on boost fueling.
To do this, use the VE Learn feature of the WUD. Stay out of boost for this as no learning will take place once in boost. Try to hit all areas of the RPM & load (MAP) ranges for good coverage. Once the VE Learn corrections are plus/minus 4% or so you are done with the VE.
Boost fueling uses the 100 KPa column of the VE table at whatever RPM the engine is at. Then uses the "BST - RPM/MAP PW Multiplier % (3-Bar)" to adjust the injector PW from there. This table is used to 'dial in' the desired AFR when in boost. Which will also be used to adjust the AFR once you have the alky injection going again.
Note that the boost PW Multiplier table can add or subtract from the injector PW (fueling). Spray enough alcohol and removing some fuel may be required (negative numbers in PW Multiplier table).
Note that the tune included with the EBL SFI-6 system is conservative (low spark timing) and for 93 pump gas (no alky). When using alcohol injection the spark advance can be increased, which will bring a lot of power back.
This table: BST - RPM/MAP Spark Advance (3-Bar)
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To do this, use the VE Learn feature of the WUD. Stay out of boost for this as no learning will take place once in boost. Try to hit all areas of the RPM & load (MAP) ranges for good coverage. Once the VE Learn corrections are plus/minus 4% or so you are done with the VE.
Boost fueling uses the 100 KPa column of the VE table at whatever RPM the engine is at. Then uses the "BST - RPM/MAP PW Multiplier % (3-Bar)" to adjust the injector PW from there. This table is used to 'dial in' the desired AFR when in boost. Which will also be used to adjust the AFR once you have the alky injection going again.
Note that the boost PW Multiplier table can add or subtract from the injector PW (fueling). Spray enough alcohol and removing some fuel may be required (negative numbers in PW Multiplier table).
Note that the tune included with the EBL SFI-6 system is conservative (low spark timing) and for 93 pump gas (no alky). When using alcohol injection the spark advance can be increased, which will bring a lot of power back.
This table: BST - RPM/MAP Spark Advance (3-Bar)
RemoveBeforeFlight
Thank you, i know its just a matter of tuning things and getting it back to par....its rather over whelming at times because ive never done this before and where i live noone is into this kind sort of thing. But one step at a time and little more effort at the track and i'll get it, thanks again for the help guys.
For WOT tuning, and after the off-boost, part throttle tuning has been dialed in close, I'll dial in WOT big-to-small. I call it "funneling in"
Start with PE commanded AFR for the "global adjustment" during WOT(PE), should get fueling in the ball park
for example, if the AFRs are consistently off target during any rpm and any load(boost), then adjust this first.
Then VE table, I use this logic;
If AFR is consistently off target at a certain rpm(ex. 3600rpm) no matter the boost level(ex 100-260 kpa), then I'll adjust the "100" kpa cell in the VE table. In boost, the "100" kpa cell is used primarily as the base for fuel calculations, if the base is off target, then everything else will be off target too.
Then BST PW Multiplier,
This will fine tune fueling at a more specific RPM, and load range. For example, you notice that the AFRs are a little lean in the 3600 rpm/180kpa range. You can use the "funnel in" method on this table by adjusting the cells in and around the specific cell, since the ECM uses "interpolation" to average more than one cell at a time.
Don't adjust ignition timing until fueling is really close, adding timing will most likely lean out the AFR a little, opposite for retarding timing.
HTH
Start with PE commanded AFR for the "global adjustment" during WOT(PE), should get fueling in the ball park
for example, if the AFRs are consistently off target during any rpm and any load(boost), then adjust this first.
Then VE table, I use this logic;
If AFR is consistently off target at a certain rpm(ex. 3600rpm) no matter the boost level(ex 100-260 kpa), then I'll adjust the "100" kpa cell in the VE table. In boost, the "100" kpa cell is used primarily as the base for fuel calculations, if the base is off target, then everything else will be off target too.
Then BST PW Multiplier,
This will fine tune fueling at a more specific RPM, and load range. For example, you notice that the AFRs are a little lean in the 3600 rpm/180kpa range. You can use the "funnel in" method on this table by adjusting the cells in and around the specific cell, since the ECM uses "interpolation" to average more than one cell at a time.
Don't adjust ignition timing until fueling is really close, adding timing will most likely lean out the AFR a little, opposite for retarding timing.
HTH
ok..i have'nt had a chance to do any driving but what i did was ran my Wide band signal to the ADC connector in order to log WB. Now if im reading the tuninig intro correctly i should be able to do VE learns under boost and at WOT correct? This might sound odd to you guys but what exactly is it learning? And what is it im looking for after i record a learn and am ready to flash and where do i look?
RmvBfrFlght
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2007
First, there is no learning when in boost, so don't try that. VE is the Volumetric Efficiency of the engine based on RPM and MAP (load). It is this table that gets learned in (the VE table). Go through this link:
http://www.dynamicefi.com/EBL_ScreenShots.php
It shows the various displays of the WUD, along with a short explanation of each. Note the VE Learn display, it has the Corectns (Corrections) radio button pressed (on the right side). As such the display is showing the changes being made to the VE table.
The EGR and CCP need to be disabled for the VE Learns, also need to get into the habit of holding the go-pedal steady. This gives the WUD time to learn in that RPM/MAP area. I also disconnect the waste gate actuator to help prevent boost. Makes it easier to get better coverage of the VE table.
There is more information on setting up and doing VE Learns in the Intro to Tuning Part 1 on our site. Along with the WUD Help document included with the system.
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http://www.dynamicefi.com/EBL_ScreenShots.php
It shows the various displays of the WUD, along with a short explanation of each. Note the VE Learn display, it has the Corectns (Corrections) radio button pressed (on the right side). As such the display is showing the changes being made to the VE table.
The EGR and CCP need to be disabled for the VE Learns, also need to get into the habit of holding the go-pedal steady. This gives the WUD time to learn in that RPM/MAP area. I also disconnect the waste gate actuator to help prevent boost. Makes it easier to get better coverage of the VE table.
There is more information on setting up and doing VE Learns in the Intro to Tuning Part 1 on our site. Along with the WUD Help document included with the system.
RemoveBeforeFlight
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