Electric vacuum pump

89mulletbird

Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Does anybody run one? My brakes just seem under powered and unreliable when letting off from the boost. I've replaced almost every part of my brake system and had it bled by a shop to no avail. The first 3/4 pedal travel doesn't grab really hard and I really have to jam the pedal down hard at the bottom to get them to lock up. I'm convinced I don't have any air in my lines after several bleeding sessions. The brakes did not improve after replacing the booster, master, and front calipers. I have braided SS lines on all 4 corners and new rotors/pads. Any last ideas before I blow $300 on a vacuum pump?
 
Does anybody run one? My brakes just seem under powered and unreliable when letting off from the boost. I've replaced almost every part of my brake system and had it bled by a shop to no avail.................. Any last ideas before I blow $300 on a vacuum pump?

I have 2 comments to state about your situation, and a possible solution? :)

First, the other 1499 turbo Trans Am's, and many thousands of regular ones seem to work fine w/o a vac pump?

Second, I have solved similar situations where a car "has been to a shop", and still had the same issue?

Most of the time the issue is in the master cylinder by not being properly bench bled.

Even if it was bled on the bench, during the installation, air can get into the brake lines, and that is hard to remove.

Do NOT push the pedal until you do the following procedure in the next paragraph:

When installing the M/C, leave the lines loose for 5 minutes or so until after brake fluid slowly drips at the fittings. Tighten the fittings, and have someone slowly push the pedal down and THEN crack the fittings loose to bleed any remaining air. If air does come out, do it again until no more air.

If air has entered into lines, I prefer to gravity bleed each wheel cylinder. Make sure the M/C is NEVER out of fluid. Since this may take 10-15 minutes a cylinder, not many shops will go to this extreme.

By using this procedure on LOTS of GN vac conversions, the individual wheel cylinders do not need to be bled for a very good pedal.

Hope this helps, as usually I do not post this detailed info as I am pretty good with tools, but suck at typing as this one was over 30 minutes to get done after going back to make typing corrections! :D
 
Well worth the effort Nick....
Good response and I think your right on point.
 
My brakes just seem under powered and unreliable when letting off from the boost.

I once had a bad check valve on the master cylinder and the brakes acted like you described above. When you put in the new booster did you change out the check valve that plugs in front of the booster or keep your old one?

If you have good vacuum at idle you might try a new check valve or a vacuum canistor that would provide a second check valve
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-3701/?rtype=10

MRG-3701.jpg
 
I don't mean to jack this thread but it could be helpful. How much vacuum are you running? How much vacuum does one need to safely operate the brakes?
 
Does anybody run one? My brakes just seem under powered and unreliable when letting off from the boost. I've replaced almost every part of my brake system and had it bled by a shop to no avail. The first 3/4 pedal travel doesn't grab really hard and I really have to jam the pedal down hard at the bottom to get them to lock up. I'm convinced I don't have any air in my lines after several bleeding sessions. The brakes did not improve after replacing the booster, master, and front calipers. I have braided SS lines on all 4 corners and new rotors/pads. Any last ideas before I blow $300 on a vacuum pump?

I never thought mine were that great either but just live with it. They work fine normal driving, but if I try to power brake my car to build a lil boost before a launch it dosent seem to hold very strong, I always just asumed that's how it is on a turbo car. but like I said, normal driving they work okay, don't think they're the greatest, but don't feel it to be a safety hazard.
 
I am getting 10-12 inches at idle. When I run the RPMs up in 2nd or 3rd and let off I get about 20 inches of vacuum and the brakes seem to work much better. I did order a vacuum canister and will see if it makes any improvement.

Thanks for the write up on bleeding procedure. Let me see if I have it right though since the MC is already installed on my car.

1) crack the lines and let drip for 10min (with the MC lid on or off?)
2) tighten lines
3) pump pedal, crack lines, repeat till no air
4) gravity bleed each wheel with MC lid off
 
Here are some tests to perform on the brake vacuum booster to see if it is operating correctly:
Brake%20booster%20quick%20tests.jpg
 
I added a vacuum reservoir can and it make a pretty nice improvement. Much better pedal feel.

I took a video showing my vacuum at idle, as well as a quick throttle tap. Idle vacuum = 13inches, Peak vacuum letting off gas = 20inches

I put a vacuum gauge on my vacuum reservoir can also. I shut the engine off, trapping 20inches of vacuum in the can. I then applied the brake pedal, paused, then released. You can see the pressure change at each step. I wasn't aware the booster used up vacuum when you let off the pedal as well!
 
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