Engine smoking at idle , oil in intake GN1R heads

[No disintegrations]

If its the rings, all that oil has to be getting onto the intake valve when the valves are on overlap (open at the same time). I don't think it's the rings due to oil being on the intake valves. I think it's in the heads.

 

[fastblackracing]

A little update, I got some new intake manifold gaskets from Cometc and tested it again
Stilled smoked after the engine warmed up at a idle and on deaccell and I mean a lot and just a note I'm running Redline 30 wt race synthetic
Pulled off the intake and it was perfectly sealed around all intake ports the gaskets ripped in half
Lots of oil in the intake probably a tablespoon on top of every valve that was closed
There is no way that much oil is coming from a valve guide so I'm betting it's the rings, probably never seated correctly
So I pulled the motor and pushed out the Pistons
Took very little effort to get the out almost slid out
I think this is the issue!

What do you all think??
For new rings will I need to have a machine shop hone the cylinders liners Or can I do it??

Re read post 26. It has the wrong rings in it. I had the same issue, there are many different types of low tension rings and I think you have the very low tension rings in there.

You will need to source a set of rings that will have 15 + pounds of tension on the oil ring set up. You should have a light hone done on the block and reassemble with all new rings.
In addition the compression rings may have been designed to work with gas port assist and will need changed as well.

I know ta assembled the engine but mistakes happen and possibly there was miscommunication on the ring package.

The low tension sets that are under 14 pounds really should have a vac pump on the engine. The easy push on the piston tells you all you need to know.

 

[gunzandgearz]

I would pull one head and check valve guides

 

[gunzandgearz]

I went back and read your earlier post #13, and you are heading down the right path,if you had that little of a leak down reading,the rings are probably not the issue imo. 15% is allowable in most engines although I prefer between 5 and 10 percent on a hi-perf engine, and you have less than that. so again this is my opinion.Also if the intake gaskets were leaking oil at the bottom you would also have a lower than normal manifold vacuum reading because crankcase pressure would also be introduced in the manifold thru that pathway.Try a vacuum reading on engine and feed back some more info.Again, could be the rings,but doubtful if your leakdown readings were correct.

 

[dank GN]

How did u seat the rings ? Has this motor had any load on it ? I was always told you have to get it started for the first time look for leaks ,oil ,fuel, water then if it all good get out and get some boost to the rings to seat them

 

[fastblackracing]

Since you have the piston out of the block, remove the two compression rings and install the piston
upside down in the bore. Leave only the oil ring on the piston.
Push it down into the bore 2-3 inches.
Go to the nearest sporting goods store and get a decent fish weighing scale with a hook on the end of it.
Put the hook on the big end the rod and slow but steadily pull the piston up the bore and note the poundage.
Try to do it in a manner so the rod angle is not causing binding.
Report back in with your findings.

 

[luv2fast]

So upon disassembly non of the ring gaps were lined up all appx 45 degrees apart or 180
I have the heads off and they were just checked out by Champion a month or so ago and I have no time on them
With the new Cometic gaskets there were no leaking issues with the intake gaskets all sealed perfectly
I filled up the intake runners with solvent and had no leakage to cracks etc
Running the blue Viton seals? I think that's the material

There is one thing that stands out and that's the ease of removal of the Pistons from the block
I called total seal today and here is my ring package
1.5 mm top AP series stainless top with zero gap
1.5 mm Napier 2nd ring
3mm 15 lb oil control ring

I'm wondering if I did not break in the engine correctly and switched to synthetic too early
It was a while ago and I don't remember if I ran it for a few hours and a couple boost runs
But that was probably it

 

[luv2fast]

I went back and read your earlier post #13, and you are heading down the right path,if you had that little of a leak down reading,the rings are probably not the issue imo. 15% is allowable in most engines although I prefer between 5 and 10 percent on a hi-perf engine, and you have less than that. so again this is my opinion.Also if the intake gaskets were leaking oil at the bottom you would also have a lower than normal manifold vacuum reading because crankcase pressure would also be introduced in the manifold thru that pathway.Try a vacuum reading on engine and feed back some more info.Again, could be the rings,but doubtful if your leakdown readings were correct.

I fixed the intake gasket issue but that was not the issue, still lots of oil in the intake
Head tear down this weekend will advise

 

[luv2fast]

Re read post 26. It has the wrong rings in it. I had the same issue, there are many different types of low tension rings and I think you have the very low tension rings in there.

You will need to source a set of rings that will have 15 + pounds of tension on the oil ring set up. You should have a light hone done on the block and reassemble with all new rings.
In addition the compression rings may have been designed to work with gas port assist and will need changed as well.

I know ta assembled the engine but mistakes happen and possibly there was miscommunication on the ring package.

The low tension sets that are under 14 pounds really should have a vac pump on the engine. The easy push on the piston tells you all you need to know.

It's just driving me crazy with the amount of oil in the intake, it's really a shit load!!! No joke
My stem seals are brand new, there is no way that much oil is pulling through the seals

 

[luv2fast]

If its the rings, all that oil has to be getting onto the intake valve when the valves are on overlap (open at the same time). I don't think it's the rings due to oil being on the intake valves. I think it's in the heads.

That was my thought but I have found nothing on the heads, no cracks, filled up the runners with solvent and no leaks, I give up!!
Many when the engine gets up to 160 temp something opens up, crack etc, how do you check for that??

 

[luv2fast]

Check orientation of the rings, see if they are upside down or something silly like that.

All good 45 deg to 180 deg nothing lined up

 

[luv2fast]

If its the rings, all that oil has to be getting onto the intake valve when the valves are on overlap (open at the same time). I don't think it's the rings due to oil being on the intake valves. I think it's in the heads.

The oil is all the way behind the throttle body

 

[luv2fast]

If its the rings, all that oil has to be getting onto the intake valve when the valves are on overlap (open at the same time). I don't think it's the rings due to oil being on the intake valves. I think it's in the heads.

Also there is no oil burning under boost just vaccume and the oil is in both the intake and exhaust but it's thought to tell on the exhaust because it all gets burnt off
When I pulled off the headers there were 3 or 4 exhaust ports that were still wet with oil

 

[gunzandgearz]

This has me a little baffled because everything that you are explaining leads either to the rings or not enough crankcase venting, especially if the heads all checked out.Where I am baffled is I have never seen the cylinders test out with a leakdown percentage as good as your test and have a ring sealing problem, low tension rings or otherwise. If you blow the hole up with 80lbs. of air pressure and it will seal with only minimal leakage, it should not be allowing oil up past the oil control and compression rings. You might try the test again or use a buddys set of gauges and see if the test results are the same,also this time see if you can hear air coming out of the oil cap or one of the breathers when you have the holes blown up with air.good luck.

 

[luv2fast]

Since you have the piston out of the block, remove the two compression rings and install the piston
upside down in the bore. Leave only the oil ring on the piston.
Push it down into the bore 2-3 inches.
Go to the nearest sporting goods store and get a decent fish weighing scale with a hook on the end of it.
Put the hook on the big end the rod and slow but steadily pull the piston up the bore and note the poundage.
Try to do it in a manner so the rod angle is not causing binding.
Report back in with your findings.

Did the test and when the piston moved the digital scale read between 12 and 14 lbs

 

[nat86]

That was my thought but I have found nothing on the heads, no cracks, filled up the runners with solvent and no leaks, I give up!!
Many when the engine gets up to 160 temp something opens up, crack etc, how do you check for that??

That would suck if there was a crack in the head you would think it would only show when hot that would be tuff to fined

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

 

[Dean]

Apologies for the resurrection, but dang it, I was hoping to see a resolution as I am having the same problem.

 

[No disintegrations]

Maybe the intake gaskets were misaligned sucking oil, but we may never hear the answer after 3 years. Doh!

 

[Dean]

I believe he addressed that.

 

[Buick Mark]

Its in the heads somewhere. Oil seeping passed a pressed in guide maybe.
Theres no way oil can travel UP into the intake port, as long as that intake valve is open, theres positive pressure from the turbo blowing in, even during overlap.
The exhaust valve and port always have pressure blowing OUT.
You said you have oil pooling on the backside of the intake valve? That's coming from the top of the head SOMEWHERE, with the positive pressure in the intake port, you ALSO have a vacuum on the top side of the head.
Total Seal Gapless rings, I used to run 'em, but no more, the leak down was minimal, BUT the crankcase would get pressurized from the downward travel of the piston and tight seal of the rings overwhelming the PCV, its a known issue with Total Seal Gapless rings.