FAST B2B- 3 issues im having.

callmeebryan

Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Ok, first off i would like to say that i already have experience with standalone computers. My previous car had a Haltech E8 standalone computer which i tuned by myself. Ive come to find that this computer isnt much different than the Haltech computer as far as tuning goes.

I bought my car july 3rd. The car ran like crap when i bought it... the tune was horrible. I have tweaked pretty much everything in the FAST including the base fuel map, timing map, closed loop map, throttle follower, IAC settings, Coolant and air temp corrections, crank maps, etc etc etc.
With that being said, i have my car running in closed loop all the time, and have been working very hard to keep the O2 correction within +/- 5% all the time. Idle , cruising, and WOT i have accomplished that.

12.6 AFR at idle, 14.9 AFR while cruisng, and 11.4 AFR at WOT (running 19psi on 93 octane without alky).

33* timing at idle, 35-36* timing while cruising, 18* timing at WOT.

Now for the issues im having

1. I have tuned the car a couple of times doing rolling pulls. I have my VE maps tuned for that and the O2 correction is never more than 8% +/- as i get into boost. However, when i go to brake boost the car for a street launch (building boost to about 5psi for a launch), the correction is off the chart... sometimes reaching nearly +20%. Ill put my foot to the floor while releasing the parking brake, boost will build, and it will slowly go down from 20% back to within +/- 5% after about 16psi. Now if i tune the car to have +/- 5% correction while brake boosting, the tune for a rolling pull will be around -15%. I've been pulling my hair out trying to fix this, and have finally decided to ask for opinions. I have plenty of logs that illustrate what is going on if you would like me to send them to you.

2. When i give the throttle a quick pump from idle, it will rev up, fall back down to idle, and then 2 seconds of fine idle, then the car will dip 100-150rpms (from 850 down to as much as 680), struggle, and fix itself. I have noticed that when the car is leaner at idle, it will struggle alot more than when it is richer... this is why i have the car idling at 12.6. 2 of my friends have turbo buick's with the stock computer and their AFR's at idle are around 14.7.... thats where im trying to bring mine. You guys have any pointers for fixing this?

3. The car sometimes struggles to start when it is at running temp (170*). Ill have to get about 15% throttle for it to start up. Im assuming my crank map needs adjustments, aswell as my IAC settings. I have timing at around 30* for cranking.... should i decrease this a bit? Or is it somethingelse? I remember in my previous car i have timing at around 18* for startup.

- Thanks in advance.
 
1. I would verify both pulls are in the same cells on the VE table. If so, then play with your AE fueling (probably MAP since it may be slower on the brake) also check your MAP AE limit

2. Look at AE vs TPS and the IAC gains in the Idle Parameters

3. When cranking the two most important screens are Start IAC position vs coolant temp and the cranking fuel table. you may just need to open the IAC a little more at that temp. With the stock ignition, cranking timing won't matter
 
The car also cranks at 10 degrees of timing and you can't change that. When the bypass line is active to the CCCI module (which it is during cranking) the ECU doesn't control timing.

Oh, sorry, I just read that Cal mentioned this. Do what he said, he's like, really smart and stuff.
 
Appriciate the quick responce guys. Ill mess with some of the AE settings aswell as the cranking settings, and let you guys know how it goes.

Thanks ;)
 
Camshaft overlap has ALOT to do with what A/F the O2 sensor sees when it is idling. Running at 14.7 is still a bit lean for idle at any rate. Is it a stock cam?
 
I recommend running the idle in open loop, you are going to have to experiment with the idle stuff a bit.Start your closed loop at 1800 and drop it out at 1500. With a 218 you will probably need to be 12.8-13.5 to keep it from stalling or hunting when in gear.
The other stuff posted will handle the balance of your issues once you get the hang of it.
 
1. I have tuned the car a couple of times doing rolling pulls. I have my VE maps tuned for that and the O2 correction is never more than 8% +/- as i get into boost. However, when i go to brake boost the car for a street launch (building boost to about 5psi for a launch), the correction is off the chart... sometimes reaching nearly +20%. Ill put my foot to the floor while releasing the parking brake, boost will build, and it will slowly go down from 20% back to within +/- 5% after about 16psi. Now if i tune the car to have +/- 5% correction while brake boosting, the tune for a rolling pull will be around -15%. I've been pulling my hair out trying to fix this, and have finally decided to ask for opinions. I have plenty of logs that illustrate what is going on if you would like me to send them to you.

2. When i give the throttle a quick pump from idle, it will rev up, fall back down to idle, and then 2 seconds of fine idle, then the car will dip 100-150rpms (from 850 down to as much as 680), struggle, and fix itself. I have noticed that when the car is leaner at idle, it will struggle alot more than when it is richer... this is why i have the car idling at 12.6. 2 of my friends have turbo buick's with the stock computer and their AFR's at idle are around 14.7.... thats where im trying to bring mine. You guys have any pointers for fixing this?

3. The car sometimes struggles to start when it is at running temp (170*). Ill have to get about 15% throttle for it to start up. Im assuming my crank map needs adjustments, aswell as my IAC settings. I have timing at around 30* for cranking.... should i decrease this a bit? Or is it somethingelse? I remember in my previous car i have timing at around 18* for startup.

- Thanks in advance.
1) I wonder if you have an "imbalance" between your AE vs. TPS and your AE vs. MAP. I think your O2 sensor might be seeing some funky A/F readings after your enrichment, which causes the "real" a/f to be incorrect. I think you'll get a better idea what is happening if you log a 1/4 mile run and see how much correction there is in each gear.

2) Idle in open loop. This will also help with #1 I think. 12.6 seems very rich to me for idling, but give the car what it wants I guess.

3) When the car is idling hot, note where your IAC and PW are. Your starting PW will probably be 2x to 3x your idling PW. Your cranking IAC position should be the same (or maybe slightly higher) as when you are idling. Also, I would think that your timing should be a lot less when starting, but according to the other guys you can't control that anyhow.

-Bob C.
 
Above 400 or 450 rpm the timing is controlled, so i would not put a big number in those cells on the map during starting. Around 20-25 seems to work well, not 30-35, otherwise it will knock as the rpm comes up i found.
 
I recommend running the idle in open loop, you are going to have to experiment with the idle stuff a bit.Start your closed loop at 1800 and drop it out at 1500. With a 218 you will probably need to be 12.8-13.5 to keep it from stalling or hunting when in gear.
The other stuff posted will handle the balance of your issues once you get the hang of it.

Tried to idle the car in open loop tonight.... the car didnt like it at all... i tried adjusting the fuel map and timing map for a steady idle but its just very unstable. Got any ideas guys?

Just for reference... i have IAC "P" gain at 10, IAC "D" gain at 7, and Max TPS for idle at 10%.

Tonight I did get the car running within 5% correction during boost build up in all situations, so im happy about that.

Another question. How much timing should i pull from 1psi-8psi or so to aid in spool up? And also what is a good AFR to run during this period? I have it right now at about 28* during 1psi-8psi with a 11.0 AFR.

Thanks
 
What is you IAC setting at idle?(look in the throttle follower) and see where the cursor is
 
Hi guys,

I have briefly tuned on bryans car.but by no means have spent any "quality" time on it.thanks for the input.keep the help coming:biggrin:

Nick,
 
a couple of shots whiles its running would be better so i can see what its doing.
If your gonna be at etown tomorrow i can check it out
 
I dont want to disappoint you but you are a LONG way off on that tune. i sincerely wouldnt be running the car too hard like it is.
 
I dont want to disappoint you but you are a LONG way off on that tune. i sincerely wouldnt be running the car too hard like it is.

Can you be a little more specific? What do you see is wrong here?

Car runs within +/-5% O2 correction, safe timing at 18* WOT for now, just moved the wot AFR to 11.0 tonight (runs good)...no knock at all at 19lbs.

Im open for opinions here. Thats why i made this thread. ;)
 
Can you be a little more specific? What do you see is wrong here?

Car runs within +/-5% O2 correction, safe timing at 18* WOT for now, just moved the wot AFR to 11.0 tonight (runs good)...no knock at all at 19lbs.

Im open for opinions here. Thats why i made this thread. ;)

Your VE table, A/F table and the timing table have no "curve" it looks like a basic default tune that is in the car. Even if your is is only correcting +/- 5% it is correcting it to the wrong a/f ratio.
 
Your VE table, A/F table and the timing table have no "curve" it looks like a basic default tune that is in the car. Even if your is is only correcting +/- 5% it is correcting it to the wrong a/f ratio.

I understand that the tune may look sort of scetchy at the moment, but the car really seems to like it how it is. I do not doubt that it can get better... dont get me wrong here.

When i got the car, it was pretty bad. Like i said before the car barely idled, was hard to start, and wanted to die when driving and coming to a stop.

I've done pretty well at making the car trackable at this point. I do agree the tune could use some smoothing out.

The reason i posted screens of my maps is because i wanted you guys to take a glance at it and make suggestions to me. I appriciate your comments.

Questions for you:
What AFR do you recommend i run in different areas? (BTW, ive changed the maps since i posted that screen)
How much timing do you think i should run?
Etc Etc
 
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