interesting numbers

[SloGN]

Richard I have been quietly doing intake flow characteristics research as well. Would you be able to measure the pressure delta above and below the power plate at 28 inches on the monometer? Nothing like good old accurate well thought out testing!

Thanks for sharing the data.

The pressure drop is very little . You can see this based on the total flow without the plate vs with. Also with the port flows with and without.

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[TTipe]

The pressure drop is very little . You can see this based on the total flow without the plate vs with. Also with the port flows with and without.

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This still not clear .I have seen several people say that they installed the power plate and with no other changes "boost" increased 2 to 3 psi. Some volume per unit of time (CFM) does not reflect pressure based on the simplest form of Bernoulli's equation.

 

[Rafs-T-Type]

This still not clear .I have seen several people say that they installed the power plate and with no other changes "boost" increased 2 to 3 psi. Some volume per unit of time (CFM) does not reflect pressure based on the simplest form of Bernoulli's equation.

Did the boost increase on their own, or were they able to increase the boost without knock? The second scenario sounds reasonable. Without cylinders getting too much air compared to others boost should be able to be increased.

 

[we4Mateo]

Did the boost increase on their own, or were they able to increase the boost without knock? The second scenario sounds reasonable. Without cylinders getting too much air compared to others boost should be able to be increased.

Agreed, I think this is what is meant when people say they increased boost a few lbs. It doesn't go up on its own, it's just able to be raised up a bit.

 

[earlbrown]

Even with no wastegate change, that's still an overly simplistic statement.

It can be interpreted as 'being able to increase boost due to lowered detonation threshold'

-or-

Boost went up due to one or two cylinders burning more efficiently (more exhaust energy hitting the turbo)




or possible a combination of the two.

 

[aminga]

Even with no wastegate change, that's still an overly simplistic statement.

It can be interpreted as 'being able to increase boost due to lowered detonation threshold'

-or-

Boost went up due to one or two cylinders burning more efficiently (more exhaust energy hitting the turbo)




or possible a combination of the two.

or

http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=8

 

[Rafs-T-Type]

or

http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=8

Someone needs to make an account so they can post a review for thing.

 

[TTipe]

Great and interesting info!! Thanks!

Were any of these combinations run without the egr tower present in the lower intake manifold? Thanks again for all the hard work.

 

[SloGN]

Were any of these combinations run without the egr tower present in the lower intake manifold? Thanks again for all the hard work.

Yes


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[TTipe]

Were any of these combinations run without the egr tower present in the lower intake manifold? Thanks again for all the hard work.

One last question (I hope) . When the Hemco was flowed was an egr tower present in the lower intake or not. I realize that the Hemco was not intended for use with an egr functioning/present. The lack of a tower may change the flow volumes you got if you tested with the tower present. This is the only issue with the Hemco in my mind.

 

[Wahoo]

This makes me feel like you wouldn't want to take your intake to just anyone to be ported if #4 need extra attention to be close to the other ports

 

[TTipe]

we are testing these units in a manner that is about as close as you could expect to get without actually being on a running engine---------- usually for the intercooled units we fabricate a fixture that bolts to the flowbench that serves as the intake pipe and attach it to the input of the throttle body----------with the throttle plate blocked open we place the inlet of the TB on the output of the flow bench----since the hot air manifolds usually have the turbo blowing directly into them we make the inlet pipe so it feeds directly into the manifold--------some flow benches flow only in one direction and some flow in both----------i have both kinds but for this test i use the bidirectional unit (Superflow SF-600) and set it to EXHAUST-------We do a total flow with all runners open and then we test each runner one at a time--------we have seen some manifolds that flow very balanced numbers that had poor total numbers and some that had large total numbers and extreme variations from runner-----we do the test at 1 PSI (28 inches of water)------ it should be clear to everyone that this is high enough pressure that we can be rather certain that the air will continue to flow in a similar matter well up to the the maximum pressures we are ever going to develop in our cars-------it is true that using a draw through method ( ie vacuum) to evaluate a manifold could possibly lead to misleading information-------air tends to be very linear at pressures above 1 bar------our tests at 28 inches place the air in the manifold well above above zero pressure-----1 ATM + 1PSI--------air becomes very non linear below 1/2 ATM and any test that might cause a drop in pressure below this value would be very suspect for this kind of test-------that is not to say that it could not be done but much care would have to be taken to insure that the resistance to air flow did not cause the pressure in the device being tested to fall into this range----------manifolds that are designed for non boosted applications could probably be tested more accurately in this manner but when they are producing most power even they are probably at WOT and the pressure drop inside their runners is minimal---------one thing is certain----our engines only produce lots of power when the manifold pressure is well above 1ATM and that is the condition where we need to make sure that they not only flow well but that there is a good balance from runner to runner--------i believe that these parameters are equally important----------it was clear to me that the RJC PP does a good job of improving the stock manifold-----at one time i had some doubts about it since i had never seen what i felt were any credible numbers but my tests clearly show that it does what is claimed------it produces a very nominal overall pressure drop while doing a good job of equalizing individual runner flow--------it is easy to increase turbo boost to make up for a small pressure drop but extremely difficult and or costly to equalize cylinder flow-------i would trade one for the other any day and so would any good engine builder -------we are constantly getting calls about testing all sorts of combinations-------lots of manifolds have been sent in as well as related accesories and there is not enough time to keep up with all of it with everything else that is going on in the shop---------that means that we might not get to everything anytime soon and i will tend to skip the things that don't seem logical-----for example why would we test the PP with the champion spacer when its not designed for that application?? -------------just my comments for tonight..............RC

Richard thanks for your time and efforts. When you tested the Hemco was it tested with an EGR tower present in the lower intake manifold. Also can you suggest what a nominal pressure drop is based on your test results? Thanks again for your time and effort.

 

[1KWIKSIX]

What size Hemco Plenum was tested? They offered them in several different sizes…..58mm, 62mm & at least one or maybe two larger sizes as well (65mm & 70mm)?.

I've got a pair of stock appearing (58mm & 62mm) Hemco Plenums in my possession.

Just wondering what size was used in the testing?

Would like to do a back to back test with PL to compare my Steve Munroe ported 62mm throttle body / plenum combo with RJC plate vs 62mm Stock Appearing Hemco.

Will have to wait till spring time before the car comes back out of winter storage before I can do this.

 

[TTipe]

What size Hemco Plenum was tested? They offered them in several different sizes…..58mm, 62mm & at least one or maybe two larger sizes as well (65mm & 70mm)?.

I've got a pair of stock appearing (58mm & 62mm) Hemco Plenums in my possession.

Just wondering what size was used in the testing?

Would like to do a back to back test with PL to compare my Steve Munroe ported 62mm throttle body / plenum combo with RJC plate vs 62mm Stock Appearing Hemco.

Will have to wait till spring time before the car comes back out of winter storage before I can do this.

I have a 65mm Hemco.

 

[hensleyt]

test with plate on champion manifold

1 215 2 209
3 215 4 213
5 198 6 209 average of 6 cylinders 210-------max variation from average= +5/-12
average of 6 cylinders WITHOUT plate was 215----max variation from average +6/-11
I have looked at #5 at ever possible number combo compearing stock , stock champion ported PP combo . It should be 208-210 using your data .
I don't dought your data on#5,198 just seems low with a PP

 

[SloGN]

test with plate on champion manifold

1 215 2 209
3 215 4 213
5 198 6 209 average of 6 cylinders 210-------max variation from average= +5/-12
average of 6 cylinders WITHOUT plate was 215----max variation from average +6/-11
I have looked at #5 at ever possible number combo compearing stock , stock champion ported PP combo . It should be 208-210 using your data .
I don't dought your data on#5,198 just seems low with a PP

Grab a intake a pp and start flowing if you doubt the numbers...

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[hensleyt]

I don't doubt
PP just should more+ results in all the other test
My bad I just had a ? In my head about the low #
Thank you for all the hard work

 

[Jay J]

Richard: Looked for, but did not find this combo:
Champion Ported stock lower intake
Precision 65MM Plenum w/ RJC plate
Have you tested this setup?

Thanks!

 

[SloGN]

Richard: Looked for, but did not find this combo:
Champion Ported stock lower intake
Precision 65MM Plenum w/ RJC plate
Have you tested this setup?

Thanks!

I thought that we may have....the 65 mm tb is that a reworked sticker. Or is it aftermarket like the 70 mm


I know that we have flowed a 62 mm tb modded stocked.

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[SloGN]

I don't doubt
PP just should more+ results in all the other test
My bad I just had a ? In my head about the low #
Thank you for all the hard work

No problem dude .. we actually used a couple if different casting (imported) to make sure if the changes that we saw to make sure what we were seeing was repeatable ....now using ported units has a total different variables at work .

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