I am looking to buy a turbo buick and i have found a good deal on an 85. the car is nice but my quetion which im sure gets asked alot is, is it worth it. or should i hold out for an 87 with the front mounted turbo. everyone says that you can make a hotair car run just as fast as an 87 but how much dinero does it take? should i just hold out for an 87 or is there nothing wrong with getting an older turbo car. Im looking to make a corner carver type vehicle. kinda like car crafts real sreet eliminator. any feedback would be great.
Is it worth it?
- Thread starter turbofish
- Start date
Well, the hot airs have some dissadvantages. Like no intercooler, crappy intake, smaller turbo (also limited to turbo size because of location), junky headers, etc. The good news is that you could get one cheaper (usually a lot) then an intercooled car. With the extra $$ you could make it faster. There is a benefit to both. But if I had to do it again I would go with the intercooled. It's not like you couldn't put one on, but it's more work to make one faster. But that's my opinion. I'm sure others wouldn't switch.
what do you think your car runs out of the gate? Im selling a really nice 98 dodge pickup with the 5.9 cause my buddy got a gn and it is awsome i really loved it. my truck ran 14.7 his car greases the truck which isnt hard to do but he has an '87. what do you think an 85 stock will run?
mycarsucks
Rambler
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2001
Thats a question thats gonna be hard to answer. These cars dont really have a stock like most other cars. no, our stock is a little bit more fuzzy. I think they were right around 15 something bone stock, $20 mod stock they could probably run a low 14 fairly easy.
If you are just looking for a drag car you would probably want an 86-87, but if youre lookin for somthing to do curves and all around driving I would go with the hot air. Hot airs have a much more smoother powerband in my opinion. Plus when you do get it faster thaan the intercooled cars, you will piss off whoevers car it is. Its alawys a good feelin being the undergog and smokin the compition. Like everyone said it will be quite a bit of cash though.
mycarsucks
Rambler
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2001
I would personally take inventory of all the things you are going to have to do and see if your hot-air is that much cheaper.
which GN
The 86-87 used to be triple the price of the 84-85 and that made it easy to modify the 84-85 and still have money left over. Now the price of the 86-87 has come down and it makes it more cost effective to just get the intercooled to start with. The 86-87 ECU can handle the upgraded chips and injectors better. The intercooler is worth 80-100 hp. all by itself over the hot air. The resale price of the intercooled car will always be higher than the hot air car. I know it sounds like I should have purchased an 86-87 instead of the 84 I had to convert to an 86-87 intercooled like I did and you would be right.
The 86-87 used to be triple the price of the 84-85 and that made it easy to modify the 84-85 and still have money left over. Now the price of the 86-87 has come down and it makes it more cost effective to just get the intercooled to start with. The 86-87 ECU can handle the upgraded chips and injectors better. The intercooler is worth 80-100 hp. all by itself over the hot air. The resale price of the intercooled car will always be higher than the hot air car. I know it sounds like I should have purchased an 86-87 instead of the 84 I had to convert to an 86-87 intercooled like I did and you would be right.
racemybuick
Hot Air Teacher/Student
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2003
ok... An ok hot air with a motor issue or body issue, $2,000-$3000 dollars.---An intercooled car, $4000-$5000, same problems.--Restore the 84-85 car totally and make an 11 sec car, $8000,+ or - $1000. The intercooled car...about $6000 + or - $1000.
I have priced a ground up body job for my car at $4600 with dupont pain, and about 3000 into the motor, no tranny.
eventually, and 11 sec hot air, no intercooler.
So ground up on a 87 should be close to the same, and the motor should cost closer to 2000 as long as intercooler is in good shape and turbo is fair to good...If you upgrade everything, like injectors, turbo, pumps, intercooler and all that, youre going to pay big $$$ in the long run...Either way, it will cost less to get an intercooled car into the 11's, but the body still cost the same, and the intercooled car resale is always higher.
I am a diehard hot air man. I believe my car will run well into the 11's with the bolt ons and all that jazz, but if you want to do it in a hurry, the intercooled car is the best bang for the buck, and the possibilities for both cars are limitless.
Good luck!
John
I have priced a ground up body job for my car at $4600 with dupont pain, and about 3000 into the motor, no tranny.
eventually, and 11 sec hot air, no intercooler.
So ground up on a 87 should be close to the same, and the motor should cost closer to 2000 as long as intercooler is in good shape and turbo is fair to good...If you upgrade everything, like injectors, turbo, pumps, intercooler and all that, youre going to pay big $$$ in the long run...Either way, it will cost less to get an intercooled car into the 11's, but the body still cost the same, and the intercooled car resale is always higher.
I am a diehard hot air man. I believe my car will run well into the 11's with the bolt ons and all that jazz, but if you want to do it in a hurry, the intercooled car is the best bang for the buck, and the possibilities for both cars are limitless.
Good luck!
John
It depends on how much of the work you can do yourself People always assume it takes a lot more money to make a hot air fast. But if you do your own work it's just parts that cost. Heck I even painted my own car. And for those in doubt it not only runs 11's but placed first at Nationals last year for the car show. Just my two cents.... 
Originally posted by turbo6x2
It depends on how much of the work you can do yourself People always assume it takes a lot more money to make a hot air fast. But if you do your own work it's just parts that cost. Heck I even painted my own car. And for those in doubt it not only runs 11's but placed first at Nationals last year for the car show. Just my two cents....
With out giving out any trade secrets,what did it take to run 11's?
With a 86-87...it's about 1500-1800 bucks of bolt-ons..I'm going 12's with about 800 bucks of stuff on my 87..stock turbo ,intercooler,just some 36lbs injectors and a AFR...hot wire..and a 103 chip.....
Personally,I wouldn't try the hot air thing..Buick saw it's flaws,and dumped it,when better technology was available...But,if you love a challenge and love an underdog...go for it...
It really depends on what your goals are. For 12s to high 11s an 86-87 definately has the advantage in cost effectiveness.
The hotair turbo will only go high 12s while the intercooled turbo can be stretched to high 11s/low 12s. While the physical size of the turbo is limited, you can still fit enough turbo to go bottom 10s.
The hotair intake doesn't flow quite as well but if you can do it yourself it only costs about $20 for a set of intake gaskets.
The hotair downpipe sucks but that usually gets replaced on both hotairs and IC cars pretty early on.
The 86-87 ECM has a wider selection of chips and more info is available for scan tools. You can pick one up from any 3.8L SFI FWD car in the junkyard for $10.
They both use the same heads and the bottom end strength is about the same.
If you're looking at going faster than mid 11s, most of the shortcomings on the hotair will have to be replaced anyway even if it were an 86-87 car. This is where I can see the price advantage of starting with a hotair.
In the real world, I've raced several local similarly modded 86-87 GNs and beat them. This reinforces my belief that once both cars get into the big mods, the playing field is level. The only advantage I can see to the later cars at this level is they don't have to upgrade headers until bottom 10s where it's one of the first mods on a hotair though all you really need is the passenger side header.
With an intercooler as my only mod, I went 13.9@101mph at stock 86-87 boost levels (13psi). I thought this was interesting that I ran what most stock IC GNs run since the hotairs have a few shortcomings other than a lack of an intercooler. It was probably due to the fact my intercooler was a bit better than a stock 86-87 unit.
The hotair turbo will only go high 12s while the intercooled turbo can be stretched to high 11s/low 12s. While the physical size of the turbo is limited, you can still fit enough turbo to go bottom 10s.
The hotair intake doesn't flow quite as well but if you can do it yourself it only costs about $20 for a set of intake gaskets.
The hotair downpipe sucks but that usually gets replaced on both hotairs and IC cars pretty early on.
The 86-87 ECM has a wider selection of chips and more info is available for scan tools. You can pick one up from any 3.8L SFI FWD car in the junkyard for $10.
They both use the same heads and the bottom end strength is about the same.
If you're looking at going faster than mid 11s, most of the shortcomings on the hotair will have to be replaced anyway even if it were an 86-87 car. This is where I can see the price advantage of starting with a hotair.
In the real world, I've raced several local similarly modded 86-87 GNs and beat them. This reinforces my belief that once both cars get into the big mods, the playing field is level. The only advantage I can see to the later cars at this level is they don't have to upgrade headers until bottom 10s where it's one of the first mods on a hotair though all you really need is the passenger side header.
With an intercooler as my only mod, I went 13.9@101mph at stock 86-87 boost levels (13psi). I thought this was interesting that I ran what most stock IC GNs run since the hotairs have a few shortcomings other than a lack of an intercooler. It was probably due to the fact my intercooler was a bit better than a stock 86-87 unit.
My recipe give or take a couple modifications. My turbo is the hot air turbo, stuffed but still the hot air turbo and it ran better then 12's . I guess it depends in what you want to accomplish. I want to run a hot air, just because it's different. Anybody can pretty much run fast in an intercooled car...
