Meth Fuel System Questions?

[Revolution]

If you have a fuel system designed to run meth like a Weldon pump etc and meth compatible injectors what is the down side of running it on a weekend warrior, strip car. I was planning on running a dual fuel system but it seems like extra weight, and more complications tuning. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks Ron

 

[Revolution]

Surely someone on here runs a meth fuel system?

 

[Razor]

Downsides.. size of injectors.. then being able to control them. You need 2x the amount of fuel to make the same power. Then you need to watch your methanol.. and drain your tank so it doesnt pickup moisture. Flushing it out. Just like the guys with the race cars do. If you want to run methanol, i'd look into Kinsler, or the Flying Toilet by Ron's.. run a mechanical pump.. and mechanical injection.. may end up easier.

I dont see any benefit to running pure alcohol all the time. Unless its a bracket car or pure race car. Where idle and drivability dont matter. Let alone cold start issues in the winter.. vapor lock issues in the summer.. and the list goes on and on..

Most weekend warrior Turbo Regals would be very happy to run a 10 something.. this can be done on 93 octane and an injection kit running pure methanol... without complications.. This is the norm..

So why would anyone here run straight methanol?

 

[Revolution]

Main reasons is I don't like to rely on a pump and a couple nozzles to deliver Meth at 30-45Psi of boost on a high Hp engine. I was going to run a dual fuel setup where I ran a separate gas and separate meth fuel system but then have been thinking maybe straight meth would be alot easier to tune.

 

[Razor]

Main reasons is I don't like to rely on a pump and a couple nozzles to deliver Meth at 30-45Psi of boost on a high Hp engine. I was going to run a dual fuel setup where I ran a separate gas and separate meth fuel system but then have been thinking maybe straight meth would be alot easier to tune.

Your logic is flawed. If you took 1/10th the time to test and maintain the meth system as it would take to maintain a methanol fuel system, you would never have a problem.

There is no "Ronco" "set it and forget it" with a race engine. Just like you wouldnt run 45 PSI boost with an empty gas tank... As you would not run 45 PSI boost without first testing key fuel system components.

If you read through this forum, you'll see a well designed meth system is pretty reliable. And what it boils down to is not being cheap on the type/quality of the parts being used. Which is what plaque's this injection industry is companies trying to offer the "Cheapest" way to spray an engine.. and the results of failed parts in the process. Its no different than buying headers from China then complaining they dont fit or seal.

HTH

 

[Revolution]

Your still relying on two nozzles to provide the exact same amount of meth for all cylinders which even you can't deny isn't going to happen with out a direct port setup. At that point the easiest and most practical way is with an injector which you can accurately control and meter the fuel, and also I want to run alot more meth then a small little pump and two nozzles can supply. And no matter what you say a pump can fail, its the same if you run 2 or 3 pumps in your fuel system instead of one large one if one pump fails its catastrophic. And please don't assume what kind of care I take of my equipment I haven't been making over 450+Hp per liter on the same motor for 3+ years because I put stuff in and forget it.

 

[Razor]

Your still relying on two nozzles to provide the exact same amount of meth for all cylinders which even you can't deny isn't going to happen with out a direct port setup. At that point the easiest and most practical way is with an injector which you can accurately control and meter the fuel, and also I want to run alot more meth then a small little pump and two nozzles can supply. And no matter what you say a pump can fail, its the same if you run 2 or 3 pumps in your fuel system instead of one large one if one pump fails its catastrophic. And please don't assume what kind of care I take of my equipment I haven't been making over 450+Hp per liter on the same motor for 3+ years because I put stuff in and forget it.

How do you know you need two nozzles?

How do you know you have even air distribution going to all 4 cylinders?

Fuel pumps and meth pumps can fail. As can a fuel injector, fuel injector driver, fuel pump relay, AEM computer, wide band sensor, etc etc etc.... all of these can have catastrophic results. The Space Shuttle went down many years ago.. so even mistakes from the most elite happen. If systems are tested, then why worry. If your concerned about breaking, why are you even racing the engine?

I never questioned your care, you are the one ASSUMMING that the meth pump will fail.. and there lies your mistake. Can it.. sure just like every part on your vehicle. If it moves.. it can fail. Will it.. probably not.. But this is like saying I wont ride a cruise ship becuase it will hit an Iceburg and sink. And the best way is to fly a private Jet.

How can I say this, becuase I've been racing with methanol injection over 6 years now. And have learned to deal with it.. not go into assumptions..

Peace,

 

[Revolution]

I have been racing with Meth for 5 years to what difference does that make? If you run straight meth is much safer, why? Well if my pump loses power I have no fuel not just less like if I run a meth injection system. You seem to be taking this rather personal this is my project and my opinions not yours. Go to what ever you want, I don't build engines to break them, though it does happen you don't win a race with a broken motor period.

I know I don' t and 99% of motors don't have equal air flow into each cylinder that is why I individually tune each cylinder according to AFR and EGT from each cylinder. How would you tune one or two nozzles?

I never said my Meth pump well fail just that it could. I think your the one assuming what I'm trying to say. I never realized you sold meth kits so now I see why your getting bent out of shape. I'm not saying my meth kit wasn't good, and for most people they are fine. I'm not most people, and my car isn't your typical car. Relax and let me gather info to make "my" decision.

 

[Razor]

I never said my Meth pump well fail just that it could.

So what difference would this be from running an Aeromotive pump on a stand-alone methanol fuel system? Or BG, or Weldon, or.... all pumps will fail. Some sooner.. some latter. If your proactive on service intervals/replacement this is then typically not an issue. If you have a methanol pump and expect it to last 15 years of service and will only replace it "after" it fails, then you subject the engine to the pump failure.

A simple approach is replacing the pump every two seasons. Typically a properly built and installed system should last this long. If your car is really on the edge, change it yearly. Just like you would change fuel pumps. Its the cost of racing just like buying slicks after X amount of passes whether they have dimples or not.

As to the nozzle question.. this you ask the company that is helping you with your fueling. Its like asking what size fuel injector to use. I cannot give this advice as I dont know anything about your combination. And this type of support I wont do on an internet forum.

Good luck with your decisions.

 

[Revolution]

You still never addressed that a meth kit with one or two nozzles won't give you a even amount of fueling across all cylinders? This was one of my major concerns.

 

[Razor]

You still never addressed that a meth kit with one or two nozzles won't give you a even amount of fueling across all cylinders? This was one of my major concerns.

Yes it will, the issue is pressure.. nozzle type.. amount of heat present.. volume vs airflow.

If the nozzle saturates the air properly, then it will give the same distribution as the air going into the motor. So it can only give equal fueling as it pertains to equal air distribution. If cylinder1 runs lean due to intake distubution.. then it will have more alcohol hitting it. As the distribution is controlled by air flowing through the motor. Once you cross the line in air saturation and the alcohol overwhelms the air present.. then is when you can get into distribution problems. Doesnt matter if its one nozzle or 5 nozzles.

HTH

 

[Revolution]

Exactly but with an injector on each cylinder you can trim the fuel so that all cylinders are getting very close to the same amount.

 

[Razor]

Exactly but with an injector on each cylinder you can trim the fuel so that all cylinders are getting very close to the same amount.

Yes.. but if you only need 10% of your fueling to be done with the methanol... the 90% is handled through your fuel injectors. Not an issue. Even if one cylinder gets 8% and the other gets 11%.. the majority of fueling comes from the injectors. And you use your DFI to balance it out.

No biggie..

Think of this.. cars that run tunnel rams with carburators.. the carb is more than 12 inches away from the valve.. you only need to look at Pro Stock to see a fuel injector is not needed for proper fuel delivery

 

[Revolution]

To compare a manifold on a Prostock motor to a regular car is crazy. They just don't throw on a manifold. Please lets just return to the point of my thread, because it has nothing to do with the meth kits you sell in anyway.

 

[Razor]

To compare a manifold on a Prostock motor to a regular car is crazy. They just don't throw on a manifold. Please lets just return to the point of my thread, because it has nothing to do with the meth kits you sell in anyway.

So whats your point. What we do works.. there is enough data in this forum to prove it. And the only one doubting it and trying to put it down is yourself. Saying you cannot get proper cylinder distribution cuase YOU say so..

Good luck on your quest.. call Barry Grant, Aeromotive, or Weldon and get your methanol system.. add another 8 injectors.. whalla.. piece of cake.. perfect fuel delivery for your regular car. While your at it, get the Motec with individual wideband sensors and set them up for methanol..

Stay away from Mechanical methanol injection setups becuase they cannot be trusted either. Like the ones used in Pro Mod. Since they dont work with electronic injectors.

I'm done here.. life is to short to argue with someone set in their ways.

KISS.. Keep It Simple Stupid.

Anyone else want to chime in

 

[Revolution]

Okay go push your meth kit somewhere else then. And please stay on topic. WHich in case you can't remmber is

If you have a fuel system designed to run meth like a Weldon pump etc and meth compatible injectors what is the down side of running it on a weekend warrior, strip car. I was planning on running a dual fuel system but it seems like extra weight, and more complications tuning. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks Ron

 

[Razor]

All of this drama over a 10 second car.. geesh

There is no response for your question.

 

[Revolution]

All of this drama over a 10 second car.. geesh

There is no response for your question.

Get over yourself and pleae keep out of my thread unless you have something usefull to add on the subject.

 

[Alky V6]

I run straight methanol with nitrous assist. You're welcome to ask me anything you want, and I will graciously answer your questions.

 

[Revolution]

I run straight methanol with nitrous assist. You're welcome to ask me anything you want, and I will graciously answer your questions.

Thanks. What do you run for fuel lines on your car? Also do you add anything for lube etc to your Meth? How often do you have to flush your system, and is your car a strict race car or do you sometimes drive it on the street? Also when jetting your nitrous do you exactly double the amount of meth (eg on a 100 Shot run 200 Shot fuel jets)? Sorry for all the questions just trying to get some first hand info on this fuel. Thanks Ron