Popped head gasket, 2nd time

T

TKGN1

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
On a freinds car (stocker), blew gaskets both sides #3 and #4 between cylinder and lifter valley about 6 months ago. thought last time it was a detonation issue, resolved/upgraded with inj upgrade, tt chip, cold air, coil module, alky control, Walbro pump, and downpipe.
Car ran great. He called today and #3 and #4 head gaskets blew again, same place. NO knock, 17 lbs boost (stock turbo), with alky.
Think the heads could be warped? had them checked out last time they where off and machine shop said they where flat. Seems strang they blew in the exact same place on both sides.
Gonna have the heads checked again by another shop, but any other ideas what could have caused this?
TIA
 
Head bolts where tightened to 85 and re-torqued after warmup.
Used fel-pro gaskets, not the best I know. BUT, 17lbs, no knock, with alky and BOTH gaskets failed? Same as last time, same place.
Has me scratching my head.:confused:
 
Hmmmm.. Sounds like he is using to much alcohol! i can run 20psi and no detonation on 93? i read in the alky section something about loosing head gaskets because of to much alcohol, you might want to check into it, its just and idea!
,Dan
 
Daniel Jost said:
Hmmmm.. Sounds like he is using to much alcohol! i can run 20psi and no detonation on 93? i read in the alky section something about loosing head gaskets because of to much alcohol, you might want to check into it, its just and idea!
,Dan
Click to expand...

Yeh but that really doesnt explain why the gaskets went before he added alky....

I would have the block and head decks checked and resurfaced by a machine shop.... that is most likely the problem. And get a set of bullet proof head gaskets this time :).
 
Thanks Dan, I'll have to ask him how much alky he was pushing into it.
Not sure if it happened at the track a few weekends ago, he did not show any knock on SM, but still could be an alky issue.
 
callmeebryan said:
Yeh but that really doesnt explain why the gaskets went before he added alky....

I would have the block and head decks checked and resurfaced by a machine shop.... that is most likely the problem. And get a set of bullet proof head gaskets this time :).
Click to expand...

Got a good point there.
I said the same about the heads and block, draw back is don't know if he will want to pull the motor to check the deck surface.
gaskets? RJC or Cometic or .....
 
TKGN1 said:
Got a good point there.
I said the same about the heads and block, draw back is don't know if he will want to pull the motor to check the deck surface.
gaskets? RJC or Cometic or .....
Click to expand...

Have you tried stock head gaskets? Go to ARP head studs and and have the heads O ringed and use factory gaskets. They work.
 
Head and block condition

Quick question, how does the block and head look where the gasket is blowing??? Does it look severely scarred can you rub your finger across the surface and feel any change ??

I would ask the shop how they checked for squareness and flatness. Personally I would have both surfaces re-surfaced unless you are sure they are using a machinist straight edge that hasn't been dropped and no level feeler guage can get between it and the surface of both the block deck and head surface.

When looking at the material between the two cylinders you'll see there is very little there and there for very little gasket material. The two surfaces should be perfect.

Twice tells me something is wrong with the surfaces and even though an increase in clamping force or a different gasket may solve the issue. I feel it is a bandaid either for improper tuning or bad surfaces!

Much success which ever route you chose to take!
 
Wait!!!!!

I wouldnt go rushing off and getting Cometics/bullet prof HGs till you fix you problem... Remeber the motor will always find the weakest point.. So if its not your HGs you could burn a piston etc... Go back to stock head gaskets from GM and then find your problem.. Band Aids will come off sooner or later..Just to let you know got a quote from the dealer stock Hgs are 70$ per side... I know just as much as Cometics but, Id rather spend 140$ two or three times instead of rebuiling a motor... Good luck and let us know what happenes...
ps- look at your plugs, also might give you some more clues....
 
You said there was no kr....How did he demonstrate that the knock sensor is in fact working....? Could be as simple as an undertorqued knock sensor. :)
 
Thanks to all who responded. I'll pass this info on and also take a look at the guys motor to see if anything looks out of place.
Sad thing is I put the heads on the last time they blew and didn't see any abnormalties. But, thought we knew why they blew last time also.

Phil and Dan, my buddies!!!! Whats happening! I told my friend to go by and pick Disco's (John) brain on this also.
By the way Phil, got the turbo back from coating and on the car last night, I'll let ya know if the wg port makes a different.
 
Lee_Burough said:
You said there was no kr....How did he demonstrate that the knock sensor is in fact working....? Could be as simple as an undertorqued knock sensor. :)
Click to expand...

True, but with 17 lbs of boost, on alky, I wouldn't think there would be severe knock, atleast not to blow both gaskets.
He is fairly new to the Buick scene, so could be other things going on with it I'm not aware of.
Sad thing is I think it has discouraged him enough to sell the car (very clean 86).
 
TKGN1 said:
On a freinds car (stocker), blew gaskets both sides #3 and #4 between cylinder and lifter valley about 6 months ago. thought last time it was a detonation issue, resolved/upgraded with inj upgrade, tt chip, cold air, coil module, alky control, Walbro pump, and downpipe.
Car ran great. He called today and #3 and #4 head gaskets blew again, same place. NO knock, 17 lbs boost (stock turbo), with alky.
Think the heads could be warped? had them checked out last time they where off and machine shop said they where flat. Seems strang they blew in the exact same place on both sides.
Gonna have the heads checked again by another shop, but any other ideas what could have caused this?
TIA
Click to expand...
It's the alcohol. You'll need to inject less or remove more fuel from the program. At 17 lbs you shouldn't have detonation. After new stock gaskets don't use the alcohol and see what happens. Is he using denatured or methanol?
 
well does the chip have false knock ignore feature. it could be knocking but the ecm is ignoring it. does he hear any audible knock?


Also are you reusing stock headbolts? if your using the arp headstuds you need to retorque when they are new since this is the second go around you should be ok. but the to center top head studs are the longest they need to be torqued 5-8 lbs more since they are longer and prone to strech more than the other studs. if you will notice alot of gasket failure with the head studs is 99% of the time around those to studs/bolts.


HTH

Pat Broughton
 
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