This is something I've been thinking about. Would the power gains be substantial by installing ported iron heads while still having a stock turbo and intercooler? Once I finish my exhaust system I will be adding alky and then I was thinking turbo and stall converter but what if I upgraded the heads first? Seems that it would have the same effect as a more efficient turbo. Any thoughts?
Ported irons with stock turbo.... Worth much power?
- Thread starter HouTX87
- Start date
I will give you some really basic advice here. Before you decide to upgrade for power purposes upgrade for strength. Do a good tranny and make sure timing chain ect are good so you don't end up with other issues. You'll be better off making a plan on what you want to do but you'll find sticking to it doesn't always work. I've had to revise my "plans" several times. What started out as a simple rust repair, body bushings, engine and tranny has turned into a full frame off now
Didn't expect to have a rotten frame and that changed everything.
Didn't expect to have a rotten frame and that changed everything.I've had to revise my plans already several times also and I'm still working through the simple upgrades. Just ordered an oil pressure gauge today. I've already thought about the transmission and I plan to do business with Mike Kurtz at Century. He's about 30 mins away from me. I agree I need to replace the timing chain as good insurance. I've already had the oil pan off once to replace the rear main seal. Upgrading the cylinder heads before the turbo is just an idea I am playing around with. When people ask if it's stock I could always say it has a "stock turbo" . So how much power would it be worth?
. So how much power would it be worth?
Thanks for that calculation. +7 psi is quite a bit and I'm running 18psi now with a mild xylene mix. Sounds pretty impressive.
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
Yes, I have a thought, you are making the same mistake many new owners make when they want more performance.
Here is quote of mine in another thread where the owner added many expensive parts, and they did not come close to his performance goals. Maybe this will help you get on the right track:
"I have mentioned this before, a local street legal GN with a stock, unopened factory engine has run 10.90 with a 61 turbo.
It is NOT about a BIG turbo or some other expensive parts, it is all about COMBINATION, and yours sucks.
I have calls every day from owners with similar issues, and they have just thrown lots of expensive parts on their car, and performance still sucks.
Also, a build and combination is not just some engine parts, but other areas like suspension, tires, fuel delivery, converter and other items MUST be up to the level of your desired performance"
So my opinion is that ported heads should be way down on your list for a low 11 sec. build, but oh yeah, you did NOT mention your goals? So you are on a trip, but you do not have a destination??????????
This is why so many owners get frustrated becuse they did not know their performance destination, but went there anyway spending lots of $$$$ and never arrived.
A good move on your part is to determine a performance level you would like and can afford, then find someone that has been there SUCCESSFULLY, and ask for some guidance.m233roller
Banned
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2002
Listen to Nick,
He's been around a LOOOONG time and KNOWS his S--T.
He's been around a LOOOONG time and KNOWS his S--T.
Truer words have never been spoken !!!!Yes, I have a thought, you are making the same mistake many new owners make when they want more performance.
Here is quote of mine in another thread where the owner added many expensive parts, and they did not come close to his performance goals. Maybe this will help you get on the right track:
"I have mentioned this before, a local street legal GN with a stock, unopened factory engine has run 10.90 with a 61 turbo.
It is NOT about a BIG turbo or some other expensive parts, it is all about COMBINATION, and yours sucks.
I have calls every day from owners with similar issues, and they have just thrown lots of expensive parts on their car, and performance still sucks.
Also, a build and combination is not just some engine parts, but other areas like suspension, tires, fuel delivery, converter and other items MUST be up to the level of your desired performance"
So my opinion is that ported heads should be way down on your list for a low 11 sec. build, but oh yeah, you did NOT mention your goals? So you are on a trip, but you do not have a destination??????????
This is why so many owners get frustrated becuse they did not know their performance destination, but went there anyway spending lots of $$$$ and never arrived.
Houtex87 I would leave the original heads on the car as long as possible and learn how to tune especially since your signature says your car has under 50,000 miles those original head gaskets are pretty forgiving ! I have never blown a set on a original engine that's never been apart and yes my cars have seen detonation here and there!
I started this as a hypothetical question and I respect Nick's advice. I never said that this is what I was going to do. It was a hypothetical question out of curiousity. I believe that so far I have done everything right and I have done extensive research thanks to all of the information here on the forums. My car was 100% stock and barely running six months ago when I bought it. All of the upgrades in my signature I have done myself plus many many repairs including the rear main seal, valve springs, and a thrown trans governor spring. I want to stay on the conservative side with this car. Actually it would be very difficult to talk myself into opening up the original engine to do head work. I thought it might be a good way to make more power with less boost and wanted to hear some insight. Thanks guys.
It's not that much of a controversial subject as it is one that you need to do more work to make usefull. Like Nick said, what a lot of newbys do is get the greatest or latest part and throw it on the car, then can't figure out why it's not working the way they wanted.
If it helps, I've been helping the 301 TTA guys with some simple upgrades on their cars as well as teaching them about the Q jets that came on them. One of them has upgraded his turbo and couldn't understand why the car was a dog until it got above 30 MPH. I told him he needed a higher stall converter and he's been a little stuborn about getting one that would work with his set up but he finally understood what I was telling him and is looking for a higher stall converter that will get the car moving better.
If it helps, I've been helping the 301 TTA guys with some simple upgrades on their cars as well as teaching them about the Q jets that came on them. One of them has upgraded his turbo and couldn't understand why the car was a dog until it got above 30 MPH. I told him he needed a higher stall converter and he's been a little stuborn about getting one that would work with his set up but he finally understood what I was telling him and is looking for a higher stall converter that will get the car moving better.
It's not that much of a controversial subject as it is one that you need to do more work to make usefull. Like Nick said, what a lot of newbys do is get the greatest or latest part and throw it on the car, then can't figure out why it's not working the way they wanted.
If it helps, I've been helping the 301 TTA guys with some simple upgrades on their cars as well as teaching them about the Q jets that came on them. One of them has upgraded his turbo and couldn't understand why the car was a dog until it got above 30 MPH. I told him he needed a higher stall converter and he's been a little stuborn about getting one that would work with his set up but he finally understood what I was telling him and is looking for a higher stall converter that will get the car moving better.
Let those 301 tta guys know I got a complete engine here that would probably run out of a car that was rear ended. I think I also have some loose parts as well.
It's not that much of a controversial subject as it is one that you need to do more work to make usefull. Like Nick said, what a lot of newbys do is get the greatest or latest part and throw it on the car, then can't figure out why it's not working the way they wanted.
If it helps, I've been helping the 301 TTA guys with some simple upgrades on their cars as well as teaching them about the Q jets that came on them. One of them has upgraded his turbo and couldn't understand why the car was a dog until it got above 30 MPH. I told him he needed a higher stall converter and he's been a little stuborn about getting one that would work with his set up but he finally understood what I was telling him and is looking for a higher stall converter that will get the car moving better.
I know that larger turbos and higher stall converters go together. And if you have the upgrades to be ready for a larger turbo/converter then the stock transmission won't last long.
This is a weekend street car with a rare trip to the track. I'm not looking for e.t.'s. I want strong reliable performance on the street. I may be a first time turbo buick owner but I've been an ase master tech for 15 years. It has not been a struggle learning my way around this car.
You sound like you are doing it right. More with less is what everyone is getting at. I run 11 second passes a lot. And I know it's not a big deal, but I have stock EVERYTHING inside short of a cam. I know a lot of people with forged this and that and can't brake out of the 12's or even 13's. As far as your original post, ported heads will make more power with less boost, as it's all about mass flow, but you won't make much more peak power if you are running your turbo all out anyway. The stock turbo will simply run out of breath at a lower boost level with ported heads vs stock but your mass flow capabilities through the motor should remain close to the same, so you won't make a lot more max horsepower, just the same hp at a lower boost level. Alky is a simpler and easier way to max out a turbo rather than ported heads, IMO.
Keep together as long as possible then go as fast as can that way and if you eventually blow a hg then swap the heads. As Nick stated others have gone in the 10's without heads which is a bunch faster than your suppose to at the track without a bar in the car.
I have daily driven these cars about 12 of them for the last 9 years and the ones I have had the least amount of problems with are ones like yours that started off stock and the heads never off and I did bolt ons to and gave pretty much no issues with so I believe if it's not broke don't fix it. Then when it's broke upgrade
As a tech myself I agree, "if it's not broke, don't fix it" I've applied that concept to this car as well, although all the 25 year old parts continue to fail after being parked for 15 years haha. Just drove it 60 miles saturday with no problems so she might be happy for a little while.
Right, So the stock turbo still wouldn't be able to keep up with the ported heads? I'd really like the keep this car/engine intact and apply what I've learned and then some to a car that's not quite so nice. Would love to get a white '87 T
I was just telling my Dad today that I'd trade my car for a well built white T too. They are oh so nice, and easier to keep clean...
