Rebuilding Engine

[bad luck brick]

I'm getting ready to rebuild my engine.
Car has been sitting for 8 years. A little background. It all started when I decided to upgrade turbo and stock headers and crossover (due to mileage and rewelding headers). During the middle of installation it started drizzling. It did not stop for three months ( El Nino year). Got back to it. Buttoned it up. Cranked on first try. Started looking for exhaust leaks oil leaks etc. It seemed ok until 5 minutes later a started hearing a ticking sound. Still searching when I heard several ticking sounds. I ran to check oil psi and it was zero. Shut it down. Damage was done. Grey smoke, low oil pressure, and fouling plugs. Never ran the same.

Fast forward to today. Been saving money to restore her. In the time she sat her paint faded, interior ripped, etc. No garage. I had bought her a car cover but it did not prevent paint clear from peeling on sun beat side. Other side looks great. I would only cruise making right hand turns. Bahahahaa.

I'm ready to use the defibrillator on her.
Past modification:
1. Xp pump
2. 36 pound blue tops
3. Kenny bell chip for said injectors.
4. Adjustable fuel regulator.
5. Art cart shift kit.
6. B & M trans cooler.
7. Four core radiator 160 thermostat.
8. ATR header and crossover.
9. Turbonetics cheetah stage 1 journal bearings.
10. ATR dual exhaust.
11. Scanmaster.

My goal was to set up a strong foundation for a street car only using 91 octane only. 100 unleaded on occasion.

Scenario 1
I was planning to add the following for the rebiuld.

1. A stock size roller cam.
2. Forged pistons.
3. ARP Head studs.
4. Upgrade to a BB turbo cheetah stg 1
5. Use stock D5 converter.

Any suggestions as to type or brands

Scenario 2
If my stock crank is no good. I was considering a stroker kit. Is this over kill for stock non girdled block? Should I just get a stock stroke forged crank? No clearance issues.

The stroker route would allow me to justify TA SI heads. Or will the stock heads suffice with some bowl work only.

1. Bigger roller cam.
2. Bigger BB turbo.
3. Higher stall lockup converter.
4. Bigger SLIC.

Any suggestions as to type or brands?

If I need to go with a forged crank I would then consider alcohol injection with about 25 to 30 pounds of boost.
With a dual stage turbosmart selector. Low setting 91 octane 17 psi max.

If I use alcohol injection for the first scenario (stock crank stock heads) how much boost is safe (with good tune)?

Is scenario two even worth the extra money ($6000 -$7000) for the performance gain over scenario one?

I'm guessing:
Scenario 1 = mid twelve 91 octane
With alky = mid eleven

Scenario 2 = low twelve 91 octane
With alky mid tens

Any comments, suggestions or stupid remarks?

Thanks in advanced.
Bad luck brick




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[turbotroy]

Depends on your goals, and your bank account. If you have unlimited funds, scenario 2+++. Scenario 1 mixed with #2 would be a lot of bang for the buck. 212-212 cam with a decent 3000 stall converter. I'm not familiar with that turbo, but with sorta stock internals, and alky would get you in the low 11's. Your gonna spend some money to make the tranny work, the suspension work, and brakes to stop it all. Have fun!

 

[bad luck brick]

Budget for restoration is 15 to 20 thousand. Sadly i don't have a garage to do some wrenching or a place to store stuff during teardown. I figured this might land in some middle ground. Any specifics on brands?

 

[SHADOWII]

If this is going to be a street/strip build, you may want top stay w/in your class rules.(turbo size, stroker, etc.) If it's mainly street performance, as stated by turbotroy, goal and $ are the limits. Your supporting mod's have to be applied along w/the engine mod's or you risk sudden destruction. For example, transmission, turbo/converter, fuel system, alchy, tuning instruments like s/m + p/logger +tuning ability.
For $15-20K You could invest in a T/A block, long or short. I would call Nick Michale and see what he can do for you. If that is not a considered option then-
First get a handle on the block and crank's condition. If good, install the two center caps to help insure longevity.
Consider a stock/stroker kit from fullthrottle along w/a roller cam assembly based on cu.in. and operating range.
A good set of p/p heads + injectors sized to your goals.
Keep in mind that $ goes quick w/these cars and consider using the parts wanted section for much of your needs. As an example, I'm already at 2k and all I've done so far was a bore w/new pistons and have the crank checked for straightness.
Hope this helps.

 

[Nick Micale]

I'm getting ready to rebuild my engine.

7. Four core radiator 160 thermostat.

Bad luck brick]

In 1987 we found the 4 row radiator will not cool as well as a good, high efficiency, 3 row copper core, so do not waste your $$$ there.

A good option is an alum radiator.

 

[bad luck brick]

Too late. Was really record 8 years ago.

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[bad luck brick]

Re cored

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[bad luck brick]

Verizon spell check is a pain.

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[bad luck brick]

Budget for engine is roughly 6 to 10 thousand

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[chris kirk]

I'm getting ready to rebuild my engine.
Car has been sitting for 8 years. A little background. It all started when I decided to upgrade turbo and stock headers and crossover (due to mileage and rewelding headers). During the middle of installation it started drizzling. It did not stop for three months ( El Nino year). Got back to it. Buttoned it up. Cranked on first try. Started looking for exhaust leaks oil leaks etc. It seemed ok until 5 minutes later a started hearing a ticking sound. Still searching when I heard several ticking sounds. I ran to check oil psi and it was zero. Shut it down. Damage was done. Grey smoke, low oil pressure, and fouling plugs. Never ran the same.

Fast forward to today. Been saving money to restore her. In the time she sat her paint faded, interior ripped, etc. No garage. I had bought her a car cover but it did not prevent paint clear from peeling on sun beat side. Other side looks great. I would only cruise making right hand turns. Bahahahaa.

I'm ready to use the defibrillator on her.
Past modification:
1. Xp pump
2. 36 pound blue tops
3. Kenny bell chip for said injectors.
4. Adjustable fuel regulator.
5. Art cart shift kit.
6. B & M trans cooler.
7. Four core radiator 160 thermostat.
8. ATR header and crossover.
9. Turbonetics cheetah stage 1 journal bearings.
10. ATR dual exhaust.
11. Scanmaster.

My goal was to set up a strong foundation for a street car only using 91 octane only. 100 unleaded on occasion.

Scenario 1
I was planning to add the following for the rebiuld.

1. A stock size roller cam.
2. Forged pistons.
3. ARP Head studs.
4. Upgrade to a BB turbo cheetah stg 1
5. Use stock D5 converter.

Any suggestions as to type or brands

Scenario 2
If my stock crank is no good. I was considering a stroker kit. Is this over kill for stock non girdled block? Should I just get a stock stroke forged crank? No clearance issues.

The stroker route would allow me to justify TA SI heads. Or will the stock heads suffice with some bowl work only.

1. Bigger roller cam.
2. Bigger BB turbo.
3. Higher stall lockup converter.
4. Bigger SLIC.

Any suggestions as to type or brands?

If I need to go with a forged crank I would then consider alcohol injection with about 25 to 30 pounds of boost.
With a dual stage turbosmart selector. Low setting 91 octane 17 psi max.

If I use alcohol injection for the first scenario (stock crank stock heads) how much boost is safe (with good tune)?

Is scenario two even worth the extra money ($6000 -$7000) for the performance gain over scenario one?

I'm guessing:
Scenario 1 = mid twelve 91 octane
With alky = mid eleven

Scenario 2 = low twelve 91 octane
With alky mid tens

Any comments, suggestions or stupid remarks?

Thanks in advanced.
Bad luck brick




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Bad luck brick, IMO you should/need to ask yourself what level of commitment and goals you have for this car/project, and I don't use the term "project" lightly, for I personally know.... Then decide whether you should opt for scenario 1 or 2. Shadowll addresses some very important points, great points..... I would listen to that! How much work other then motor work does your car need? I ask this because it sound like your car may need more then just motor work requiring more $$$ and time then you might otherwise expect. Here's a brief situation of how I started my build. It's just something for you to think about in terms of time and $$$. Mine didn't really need anything until the passenger side quarter got hit. Then I decided to do a full frame restoration. I, much like yourself, do not do my own work either, therefore, have spent $$$$k's on labor which is a large %age of the overall cost involved. Nick Micale built me a TA aluminum stroker motor, so I have a pretty good idea what kind of money you'll spend just on that alone should you decide to do that. And Nick's the person to do it. He's a great guy, super knowledgeable, very easy to talk to, no question is a dumb question, and will give you great advice along with an excellent finished product. But it's not just a motor that will empty your pockets it's all the supporting parts as well. I have spent in addition over $20k on supporting parts (headers, DP, wastegate, IC, radiator, boost controller, injectors, Weldon fuel pump, XFI.....) To much to list. Another $15k on drive train (tranny with GV, convertor, Moser Ford 9".....) And none of that includes any suspension, brakes, wheels/tires, frame work/restoration and body work/paint. I'm sure there are many of other people on the board that have nicer GN's then myself and will tell you pretty much the same thing I'm saying. They become a money pit real fast. My motor as we speak is still wrapped in the packaging in which Nick sent it to Dale Cherry's shop which was two years ago. Now, I'm kind of an asshole and therefore, want/expect things a certain way, which, therefore, will take more time, so I don't mind waiting. But don't get me wrong it's a shit load of $$$$, too. So keep that in mind.

Also, I think my situation is a little different then most. I'm single and I have no children, so therefore, I spend my money on whatever I want to spend my money on...... No wifey with my balls in her hand controlling the funds..... Hopefully for the sake of your GN you're in the same situation as myself...... So keep that in mind as well. I read some threads from time-to-time where people want/need a set of headers or a fuel pump or maybe a new dp, but the wife won't go for it, so it's a no-go...... I've had some friends over the years that start these types of projects only to sell them halfway through because the wife is bitchin about it. And that really sucks..... I feel for those guys. There's a lot of people on the board that have helped me and I'm sure if you ask they'll help you too. Good luck with your car.

 

[bad luck brick]

I agree that these things can and usually snowball out of control. I've budgeted as follows:

1. 6 to 10 on engine. (Trans & diff are in good working order)
2. 6 on paint job. (No accidents)
3. 1.5 on interior. (Just recovers are needed)
4. 1.5 rims and tires. (Optional if i can't get my oem rims to shine again)
5. Brakes (sticking with stock)( i have conversion for vacuum brakes ready)(this i can handle)

You are correct Nick can handle the whole project. Im currently emailing him on advice.

Sounds like i need to save more money for unforseen issues that may arise. I don't need a lien on my hooptie. Bahahahaha.

 

[ITSAV6]

If trans is stock and ur just adding a shift kit it probably won't last very long if you put a lotta power to it.

 

[Gene Van Horn]

For 15 to 20 k you can buy a completed gn with all your goals and part out the other one. Just somthing else to think about

 

[bad luck brick]

I've been aggressively looking at other buicks. All seem to be in Canada or eastcoast.

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[getdowngranny]

When a car sits outside, things get out of control really fast. I would do a thorough inspection on everything before you even start the teardown process. As far as the engine build goes, I would wait to tear it down to see what condition everything is in. The crank may still be withing spec and the cylinders may also be within factory specs. if you tear it down and it all checks out good, this is what I would do. Send the block to get checked, cleaned and honed. If crank is within spec, polish or go 10 under. Inpect and clean stock rods and get a good set of pistons on there. Get the block set up for main studs and billet caps. New rings and new crank and cam bearings. New TA stock style timing chain, New TA front cover with blueprinted oil pump, small roller cam. Send the stock heads to get a port job, freshen up and machined for roller cam. Set up the heads with the correct springs for the cam. All this should be done by a reputable Turbo Buick builder of course. There you have a reliable longblock. With parts and labor you are looking around $3.5-$5k.... And that is without even getting too cute with fancy parts. Then, you will need to address everything after longblock that will need attention. Injectors, fuel system, ignition system...... All is starting to add up more and more. Turbo and exhaust. More money. Then you have your engine ready to rock and you are about $8k deep. Your transmission WILL need attention next, so budjet another $2-$3k for that. That will put you right around $10-$12k and you should have a reliable vlavetrain and drivetrain. Like I mentioned before, that was with not getting too flashy on the engine parts. If you have to get a new rotating assembly then you can easily add another $2k to the engine build alone. With this setup, alky, good suspension, and good tune, you should have a reliable low 11 sec car. Then you can address paint/body and all the other loose ends.

 

[bad luck brick]

I appreciate your input getdowngranny. Who would you recommend for the build? I'm in the San Fernando Valley, 30 minutes north of Los Angeles.

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