Now I'm being convinced. What was the operating conditions of your motor at that time? How much hp and what turbo and boost level? What type/brand/weight oil?
Thank you for sharing.
Should I be running an oil cooler on my 87?
- Thread starter HeloCrewChief
- Start date
Now I'm being convinced. What was the operating conditions of your motor at that time? How much hp and what turbo and boost level? What type/brand/weight oil?
Thank you for sharing.
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
I do not have "documented" proof, but I do have experience with engine issues because of oil too hot?
The latest is a local car with a fresh rebuild [500 miles] that the overheated on a highway trip. When the car was towed back to me I drained the oil he had changed by a shop, and it was like water and only had almost 5 psi oil pressure. This oil poured like water, not oil, and I "assumed" it was light-weight synthetic?
I put in regular oil and had about 20 psi vs. 35 psi when it was delivered to the customer.
However the damage was done as I found lots of bearing material, and pulled the engine. Not only were the bearings trashed, but so was the crank. I had no choice but to build it again at no charge, even though we did nothing wrong? He is a long time customer and a good guy, but knows nothing about what goes on under the hood, he does know what oil NOT to use now!
My opinion is the the excessive overheating and light-weight synthetic oil played a BIG part in the destruction of this engine. We see overheated engines often here in the desert, but this is the first and only time did one self-destruct because of those 2 factors.
The first time I used Mobil I in my shop in the late 70's, it drained like water in the hot summer, and decided that was not for me or my cars again.
Synthetic oil may have a higher flash point than regular oil [550 deg. vs. 500 deg.], but it does not have as good viscosity when hot or very hot, and we deal with VERY hot here!
I honestly can't even believe what I'm reading ... Please don't steer people in a incorrect direction because you are not convinced .. there are opinions and there are facts ...
the facts are in our cars "TURBO BUICKS" .. run the oil cooler for many reasons .. its simple .. hotter oil temps have no benefits at all and are destructive... lower OIL PRESSURE is DESTRUCTIVE .. if you can't understand the benefits and want to run without one on your car go ahead ...
If you think you are more knowledgeable on the subject than GM by all means carry on with the destruction of your mill, but don't incorrectly inform people it is NOT NEEDED and is a waste to have... it's not !!! on a naturally aspirated Mill is 1 thing .. on a turbo mill .. its something completely different.
Squid4life
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2004
Not sure on HP, never put it on the dyno. I had ported big valve heads, ported intake, 204/214 cam, TE-44 turbo, Razors alky, and I kept her about 18-20 psi. Also played with e-85 towards the end and ran about 20-22 psi. Car was my daily driver, mostly merge on highway, merge off highway, then some stop and go/sitting in traffic. I was stupid with that car and she got used and abused and beat on every day when there was no traffic. For some reason every crotch rocket wanted to play and I was too stupid to resist. This was SoCal weather, so usually 75-80 and perfect, but sometimes climbed to ~95.
I always ran regular Castrol 4 qts 10w30 and 2 qts 10w40 as I found that was my best viscosity and oil psi. I ran a homemade turbo saver/extra oil filter setup for extra filtration as well as 1 quart of extra capacity. I would change my oil at 2,500 miles at most because of the amount of time the car spent at WOT, but usually every month or month and a half.
Before the oil cooler setup in the radiator, if I ran the car hard I would nervously have to watch my oil pressure gauge as the pressure would undoubtedly drop after hard runs. I even threw more 10w40 or even a 20w50 in the combo to keep oil psi up. Changed to the oil cooler setup in the ALRADCO and was running mostly 10w40 at first, but the oil pressure was more than it really needed to be so I went back to the 4 30's, and 2 40's for oil and it was perfect from then on.
What guys use or don't use in their cars is 100% up to them, and I would never say what is right or wrong in this situation, but beating on my car daily and being pretty OCD with it I learned what worked and what didn't. This worked perfect for me, and I felt safe with it. Buicks are known for having to be very specific with their oil clearances, with having lower "required" oil pressures, etc, so I found what worked best in my situation and ran with it.
I always ran regular Castrol 4 qts 10w30 and 2 qts 10w40 as I found that was my best viscosity and oil psi. I ran a homemade turbo saver/extra oil filter setup for extra filtration as well as 1 quart of extra capacity. I would change my oil at 2,500 miles at most because of the amount of time the car spent at WOT, but usually every month or month and a half.
Before the oil cooler setup in the radiator, if I ran the car hard I would nervously have to watch my oil pressure gauge as the pressure would undoubtedly drop after hard runs. I even threw more 10w40 or even a 20w50 in the combo to keep oil psi up. Changed to the oil cooler setup in the ALRADCO and was running mostly 10w40 at first, but the oil pressure was more than it really needed to be so I went back to the 4 30's, and 2 40's for oil and it was perfect from then on.
What guys use or don't use in their cars is 100% up to them, and I would never say what is right or wrong in this situation, but beating on my car daily and being pretty OCD with it I learned what worked and what didn't. This worked perfect for me, and I felt safe with it. Buicks are known for having to be very specific with their oil clearances, with having lower "required" oil pressures, etc, so I found what worked best in my situation and ran with it.
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
Knowing Matt, I do not think he was stating a fact but his opinion in his specific case.
But some "facts" I do know from Buick and the engineers at the Mesa GM Proving Grounds I dealt with in the late 80's that were involved in the turbo Buick project.
One criteria they had to meet was underhood max temp. It was at the max, and with the added HP of the GNX they had to add the fender vents to relieve the heat as the oil cooler had already been included in 1986 to help control heat.
There is a simple way to relieve underhood heat especially around the coil pack/module, and that is to remove the rubber moulding at the base of the windshield sealing the hood. This will lower temps a lot in summer weather, and does not cost anything!
GM could not do this because of increased noise for one and weather sealing too.
robzombie
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2012
There is a simple way to relieve underhood heat especially around the coil pack/module, and that is to remove the rubber moulding at the base of the windshield sealing the hood. This will lower temps a lot in summer weather, and does not cost anything!
My cowl seal looks like NOS because it's been off the car so long!!
My cowl seal looks like NOS because it's been off the car so long!!
What's interesting is the cowl area is a high pressure area.
years ago when I removed mine hoping to cool things off I couldn't tell one bit of difference. Except I could smell 'engine' in my HVAC vents and the rear plug wire boots rusted and corroded the coil pack terminals.
years ago when I removed mine hoping to cool things off I couldn't tell one bit of difference. Except I could smell 'engine' in my HVAC vents and the rear plug wire boots rusted and corroded the coil pack terminals.
robzombie
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2012
What's interesting is the cowl area is a high pressure area.
Not when your driving at low speeds, say in around town driving which is where the air will actually flow out not in due to the lack of high pressure.
At what speed it would revert to a high pressure area I'm not sure, but by then the airflow through the rad will take over and reduce the load on the fan.
I could maybe see that in a wind tunnel test you could find the speed where the air coming through the grill and the high pressure area in a cowl induction hood would force the air down in the engine compartment and under the car instead of flowing out through the cowl.
Not when your driving at low speeds, say in around town driving which is where the air will actually flow out not in due to the lack of high pressure.
At what speed it would revert to a high pressure area I'm not sure, but by then the airflow through the rad will take over and reduce the load on the fan.
I could maybe see that in a wind tunnel test you could find the speed where the air coming through the grill and the high pressure area in a cowl induction hood would force the air down in the engine compartment and under the car instead of flowing out through the cowl.
Just discussing. I may be wrong but my engine is hardly a grenade. I ran the stock cooler for years. I've also run without one for years now. Same mill, same oil. Pressure is always enough so I just never thought of putting one back on. If I ran it wot for more than a 1/4 mile at a time, I may consider putting one back on. It has seen 130+ a few times already this year though in Mexico. I'm in no way saying that an oil cooler doesn't do what it's intended to do, but if it was REQUIRED, a few more people would be getting rebuilds sooner; including me!
When I do a new motor, I'll probably run the alradco side oil cooler. Until then, I'll keep being the test mule. I'm moving to TN and it gets plenty hot there in August! Honestly, it's similar to IA though; 95+ and humid in the bad months. I'll let you know when this old girl gives up the ghost, but if you're wrong, I'm holding you accountable for me not going faster, sooner because this damn thing won't die!
93,889 miles as of today and I just finished up day 4 and some beating on day 5 on the power tour. It got hot sitting in Bettendorf trying to get in. 208 was the highest coolant, even with dual fans! And the oil pressure hung in there fine. Amsoil 10W-40. Original rings and pistons yet too...
Oil pressure gets a little less than desired on long highway trips if I run 80mph with the a/c on. I think coating the crossover will help this or at least sealing up the slip joint. I'll let you know.
Oil pressure gets a little less than desired on long highway trips if I run 80mph with the a/c on. I think coating the crossover will help this or at least sealing up the slip joint. I'll let you know.
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
It really makes no difference if it is a high or low pressure area, it allows a hell of a lot of hot air out from under the hood!
Years ago we had MANY coil pack/module issues and they would be so hot you would be burned if you touched it. Just removing the rubber from the cowl made a big difference, and when you cruise around town in 110+ temps, we need all the help we can get as we drastically reduced that issue.
I have a large stash of cowl rubber moldings, some from GN that the owner never did know it has been gone, but so has his issues.
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