spooling a T66 turbo with a stock D-5 converter

[Race Jace]

Yes it is true, It is almost unbelieveable but we reciently installed a craig 66 p trim turbo with a precision .63 exhaust housing. The car is a basic rebuild, ported stock heads comp 218 cam, stock headers, stock down pipe, hooker cat back. 50# inj, stretched stock location intercooler.

There is one key to the setup, we are using our boost controller. With that it is possable to spool the turbo to 17+ psi of boost on the line. This is at 5000ft ele. Those of you at lower ele will spool even better. Talk about having your cake and eating it too....

 

[getchasum]

Jason, just trying to understand, help me out here. How does the boost control help a mismatched turbo/converter combo spool faster, that one would normally assume would have a lot of lag? Would it be safe to assume that it would still achieve the same results from a roll on the streets? I’ve been wanting to upgrade my 49 but at the same time I’m not wanting to give up the quickness of instant boost from a low roll dig.

 

[NCTURBOS]

Jason, I'm glad you posted this thread!!

I've been saying for years that a Ta/Te61 w/.63 Garrett housings spool great with a stock D-5, and the only people that believe me are those whose cars I built that way. I personally like tighter & more efficient converters.

I had a Te45a w/ P-trim on my gray car back in '99 with the stock D-5 converter in it. The car was very responsive then as well.

Scott, with your combo. you could make good use of a larger turbo.


K.

 

[Boston GN]

I am very interested in this as well. I have a "mismatched combo" because I have yet to install my Yank converter, but if I don't have to, I would rather keep the D5 in there. Then I could sell the converter and buy more goodies

Also, what if you are not using the actuator and are set up "tuner style." Does this just splice in between the compressor and external wastegate?

 

[Sweet6]

Did this car have the RJC light weight pullies too?

 

[Race Jace]

this should help explain it better.

http://rjcracing.com/RJC_Buick_Products/BoostC/boostc.html

yes the car did have my light weight pulleys.

Explain to me again what "tunner" style is.

 

[Boston GN]

Jason,
Tuner style meaning I have my vaccum line from my external gate going straight to the compressor side of the turbo...no wastegate actuator in the loop

 

[Race Jace]

then yes "tunner style" with my controller in the middle.

 

[chazmat2316]

RJC boost controller work great!! T63e spools almost too fast!! now I'm trying a 70bb.

 

[getchasum]

Originally posted by Race Jace
this should help explain it better.

http://rjcracing.com/RJC_Buick_Products/BoostC/boostc.html

yes the car did have my light weight pulleys.

Explain to me again what "tunner" style is.

I've already read it. Still don't understand how it's going to make it spool faster based off what I read.

Is the 66 that you’re referencing an equivalent to a TE63?

 

[madhat]

I am curious if there is any boost creep or spiking during shifts....like my Q-boost. Also, would I actually notice a difference in spool up if I am running more conservative boost levels...like 12-15#s?

 

[azgn]

Jace....

Please define "spool"......does that means on a .4 Pro Lite you can build 17 lbs after staging and before the tree comes down?

or what?

 

[Race Jace]

Originally posted by getchasum
I've already read it. Still don't understand how it's going to make it spool faster based off what I read.

Is the 66 that you’re referencing an equivalent to a TE63?

with bleeders, the factory boost solinoid, and most aftermarket boost controllers the wastegate action is progressive.

With my controller it is not progressive. What ever boost level you set it at , the WG puck stays closed until that boost setting.

I don't know how to explain it in any simpler terms than i have. You have to understand the mechanics of how any type of simple wastegate works to understand the benifits of the controller.

this controller and the way you put it together eliminates boost spike and creep within the limit of what the waste gate hole can flow.

"Spool" means the ability to build boost at the rpm stall speed of the torque converter.

I hope this answers some of your questions.

 

[cool 84]

Do you think it would help for those of us running an external gate? I have the Innovative gate, not sure if it opens too soon like the stocker or not. I guess I could always dump it to atmosphere to find out.

 

[sdteb]

rjc boost controller

all i can say is wow....this does work great i have a te 44 and with a orange stripe i had to turn my alky down to come in at about 7psi due to the spooling nature of the car now....

 

[2QUIK6]

hmm...Even with limiting the boost from reaching the actuator, you are still limited by the spring tension in the actuator, so when the back pressure in the exhaust housing exceeds the stock 13# in the actuator, the WG will open from pressure pushing on the puck, so I don't understand how this would solve that problem and allow you to continue to build boost ??

The stock WG solenoid bleeds off the pressure so that it doesn't reach the actuator also, so I don't understand how this could be so different.

 

[Cool87GN]

TE-45A...

Jace, so with my Art Carr 3200 stall I should be able to keep this converter and turbo combo without having to upgrade the converter? That would be great.

 

[Marc87GN]

Originally posted by 2QUIK6
hmm...Even with limiting the boost from reaching the actuator, you are still limited by the spring tension in the actuator, so when the back pressure in the exhaust housing exceeds the stock 13# in the actuator, the WG will open from pressure pushing on the puck, so I don't understand how this would solve that problem and allow you to continue to build boost ??

The stock WG solenoid bleeds off the pressure so that it doesn't reach the actuator also, so I don't understand how this could be so different.

That is actually addressed in the write-up. If I understand this correctly, you still need a heavy duty actuator to avoid what you are describing. Basically once the boost is set with the controller, the gate won't see any boost until it reaches that point. The key is to have the actuator pulling so tight on the puck that it doesn't blow open by the exhaust. So there are 2 pieces required to make this work IMO.

I noticed as I made the car more efficient and with turbo working effiencent, that there are times it takes some time for the boost to hit 19 psi because the rod length is so long and the exhaust is possibly blowing the puck open. I'm sure this is happening to alot of people and that could be contributing to needing higher stalls.

I feel with a HD actuator pulling extremely hard on the puck, this will work awesome because it won't be progressive like was mentioned and the puck will be sealed until the preset boost it reached at the controller.

Sorry if I paraphrased, but I think I understand the mechanics of the device and what's needed to make it work.

I had a similar setup on my 99 GT and could spool the T-76 by 3200 rpms because the gate saw no readings until the preset boost was hit.

I will be ordering one today.

 

[Marc87GN]

I think this is the Part.

"Once we have shortened the rod to achieve 20 plus pounds of boost the actuator is shortened to the point it has no more travel. By letting this boost controller control the amount of boost the waste gate actuator sees boost creep is literally eliminated."

 

[2QUIK6]

Shortening the rod will increase the boost setting and the point the WG can blow open by exhasut. Increasing spring tension to your desired boost pressure will definitely increase spoolup...just try making the rod just a bit shorter than the length needed to attach to the WG at rest and you'll see the spoolup is terrible.

What I'm saying is shorten the rod until you have the spring tension set to your desired boost, then if you have an aftermarket chip, the Boost PW are probably already set at 100% well above the rpm needed to spool your turbo (this was the basic chip change that everybody did back in the first 10 years of TRs), which will effectively bleed off all the boost going to the actuator anyway. So if you still have the WG solenoid and aftermarket chip, I don't see an advantage.

Don't mean to flame the product, just don't see the physics that would give you an advantage if everything is in working order.

If you have a big turbo, and at 3000 rpms you have 0# of boost, the WG is closed completely no matter what, it takes rpms to spool big turbos, if you aren't building boost, then the WG is closed to begin with as there is no pressure to the actuator even running "tuner style". As a test, just unhook the hose going to the actuator and see if you build boost any faster, because then you are actually simiulating what this product does, or the stock solenoid does if its working properly.