You can add my $.02 to that too.
TH400 pump noise...
- Thread starter yullose
- Start date
I understand the concern, but I just can't image the ultra fine material in the fluid could damage the converter in 5 minutes of driving. It was fine enough to stay suspended in the fluid and pass through the filter. The few larger pieces I saw were isolated to the pan.
Tomorrow I will probably buy a gallon of laquer thinner and flush the converter a few more times anyway.
Of course there is no guarantee the converter is good either... I'm just counting on PTC's stellar reputation, and hoping it was just a dumb mistake on my trans builders part. It would be a first for him too, since he's done about 5 or 6 trannys for me in the last 10 years or so. One was in my old GN, and that car is still ripping up the streets of Ontario. I also have one of his 'glides in my brother's 565 powered Camaro. I'm not sure what his resume looks like, but he is or was somehow affiliated with Trans Specialties here in PA. He either worked for them or contracts for them. He uses Trans Specialties parts in all his builds... I know that much.
Tomorrow I will probably buy a gallon of laquer thinner and flush the converter a few more times anyway.
Of course there is no guarantee the converter is good either... I'm just counting on PTC's stellar reputation, and hoping it was just a dumb mistake on my trans builders part. It would be a first for him too, since he's done about 5 or 6 trannys for me in the last 10 years or so. One was in my old GN, and that car is still ripping up the streets of Ontario. I also have one of his 'glides in my brother's 565 powered Camaro. I'm not sure what his resume looks like, but he is or was somehow affiliated with Trans Specialties here in PA. He either worked for them or contracts for them. He uses Trans Specialties parts in all his builds... I know that much.
Look. I'm not trying to throw mud on anyone. I completely understand the meaning of the phrase, '##it happens'. I also understand that if I were the person that built the trans and found out that metal had been circulated through it AND the converter, no matter where the metal came from, I would want the trans and the converter thoroughly cleaned out. If I were to take the time to redo the trans, you'd better not contaminate it with trapped metal from the same TC. Just how are you flushing the TC? The shop that I started out at had special TC flushing machines. Do you have one of those? If you're trying to flush the thing by hand, give it up. Do the job right. That means cut open the TC and clean it out.
I never did trust those flushing machines. You also had to drill and tap the outside diameter of the TC for a 1/8 npt drain plug inorder to flush it properly. Are you doing that?
I never did trust those flushing machines. You also had to drill and tap the outside diameter of the TC for a 1/8 npt drain plug inorder to flush it properly. Are you doing that?
turbo nasty
Turbo Dojo / MNTR
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2001
You simply cant "flush" a convertor it must be cut open to be cleaned out. You are just asking for trouble putting that conv with a new trans.
From te hlooks of it something let go for sure. Maybe a sprag..?
From te hlooks of it something let go for sure. Maybe a sprag..?
What pi$$es me off is... Everything WAS new when it went in.
A brand spanking new $900 PTC converter and a fresh $1200 trans.
Obviously something took a crap in the trans... and now I've wasted $50 worth of trans fluid and need to spend $25 each way to ship the converter back and forth to PTC to get cut open and cleaned. I'm sure the cleaning/cut open labor will be more money too.
On top of that, I had to pull a trans AGAIN for nothing... and have to drive an hour each way to the trans shop...burning $40 worth of gas, hopefully to get it fixed and bring it back the same day... if not, it will be another day and $40 worth of gas shot to hell going back to pick it up.
I hate to be an a$$ to the trans builder, but I damn sure hope he makes good on this. At least give me a case of ATF or something for my troubles.
Honestly, I think he should pay to have the converter cleaned too.
A brand spanking new $900 PTC converter and a fresh $1200 trans.
Obviously something took a crap in the trans... and now I've wasted $50 worth of trans fluid and need to spend $25 each way to ship the converter back and forth to PTC to get cut open and cleaned. I'm sure the cleaning/cut open labor will be more money too.
On top of that, I had to pull a trans AGAIN for nothing... and have to drive an hour each way to the trans shop...burning $40 worth of gas, hopefully to get it fixed and bring it back the same day... if not, it will be another day and $40 worth of gas shot to hell going back to pick it up.
I hate to be an a$$ to the trans builder, but I damn sure hope he makes good on this. At least give me a case of ATF or something for my troubles.
Honestly, I think he should pay to have the converter cleaned too.
If that's the look of the fluid after your flushing routine, you'd better have it cut opened, inspected and cleaned.
I would hold back on the attitude until you find out what gave up the ghost. I've had customers make complete aces of themselves just to find out there was an installation error on their part that caused the whole situation. Not saying that you did something wrong, but you never know until you know.
I would hold back on the attitude until you find out what gave up the ghost. I've had customers make complete aces of themselves just to find out there was an installation error on their part that caused the whole situation. Not saying that you did something wrong, but you never know until you know.
I understand completely... but I've double and triple checked everything possible on my end.
I know I'm getting older and more absent-minded... but I'm 100% positive it wasn't install related. It was a textbook install. I wouldn't even mention it if I wasn't so sure, because if it WAS my fault, I'd have to come back on here and eat crow.
To my builder's credit, he called me already at 7:40 this morning. He said he won't be around much today, but tomorrow he'd be there all day if I wanted to bring it back for him to look at.
He's a great guy and I'm sure he'll make good on it. He said to bring the converter along and he'd take care of that too.
turbo nasty
Turbo Dojo / MNTR
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2001
Is the 400 have a manual VB with a trans brake?
Yes... and it's a style I don't particularly care for. The only way to back the car up is to put it neutral and hit the button.
I've had 'glides that worked like this, but never a TH400.
The last '400 I got from him worked normally in Reverse.
Dusty Bradford
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Your doing the right thing. The fluid coming out of the converter looks pretty bad so it needs to be cut open.
Unfortunately, this is the way it goes sometimes. A good friend of mine just had a terrible experience with his motor. Sent his aluminum rods in for inspection, everything passes and he was good to go. 3 passes later the rod cap flies off, the rod exits a $800 dry sump oil pan and damages a $5000 block and $2500 crank. Hang in there, you'll be glad of the swap very soon.
Unfortunately, this is the way it goes sometimes. A good friend of mine just had a terrible experience with his motor. Sent his aluminum rods in for inspection, everything passes and he was good to go. 3 passes later the rod cap flies off, the rod exits a $800 dry sump oil pan and damages a $5000 block and $2500 crank. Hang in there, you'll be glad of the swap very soon.
turbo nasty
Turbo Dojo / MNTR
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2001
Not sure if your builder told you but, when you have the manual VB and a brake the car im sure you noticed does not have engine braking.
The one way sprag is a weak link and the driving style needs to be altered vs. the 200.
I.E. if you are running along at say 50-60 in 3rd dont ratchet down to 2nd and nail it.
You have to get the the vehicles speed down so the trans (sprag) doesnt get hammered during the above scenario.
No 1st gear burnouts either only 2nd gear burnout. Once again for the sprags sake.
Just went through this with a friend that did the swap neither of us knew of this sprag issue. We tjough ..Turbo 400 itll take wahtever we throw at it....no more 200 dying out....rrrrrr....wrong.
We were tuning the car and dropping down to second and doing pulls to log and tune the FAST. As well as 1st gear burnouts when tuning. Long story short his car got where it wouldnt shift out of second and finally died and had alot of shavings.
Not sure if you did any of this but just some FYI. Hope you get it straight. While you builder is in there get him to put the highest element count sprag in there. I believe its 34 or 36 element.
The one way sprag is a weak link and the driving style needs to be altered vs. the 200.
I.E. if you are running along at say 50-60 in 3rd dont ratchet down to 2nd and nail it.
You have to get the the vehicles speed down so the trans (sprag) doesnt get hammered during the above scenario.
No 1st gear burnouts either only 2nd gear burnout. Once again for the sprags sake.
Just went through this with a friend that did the swap neither of us knew of this sprag issue. We tjough ..Turbo 400 itll take wahtever we throw at it....no more 200 dying out....rrrrrr....wrong.
We were tuning the car and dropping down to second and doing pulls to log and tune the FAST. As well as 1st gear burnouts when tuning. Long story short his car got where it wouldnt shift out of second and finally died and had alot of shavings.
Not sure if you did any of this but just some FYI. Hope you get it straight. While you builder is in there get him to put the highest element count sprag in there. I believe its 34 or 36 element.
Yep, been there done that. My first sprag rollover was about 18+ years ago in my first (supposedly) "race prepped" TH400.
Honestly, I never even got to romp on my car before it gave me trouble.
I was maybe 8 minutes into a 10 minute ride before I heard noise from it.
The only "romp" I did was a quick 1-2 shift with the tires spinning, then lifted to straighten the car out. Clicked into 3rd and drove down the highway like Granny. There honestly is less than 10-15 minutes of total running time on this combo.
If I hadn't paid this guy good money to do the trans, I would just pull it apart myself and look inside.
I really hope he lets me watch him pull it apart, but I expect he may want some privacy with it first.
turbo nasty
Turbo Dojo / MNTR
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2001
The spinning could have killed whatever.
Good luck dude with it. They work between breakdowns.
Good luck dude with it. They work between breakdowns.
I'd find it hard to believe that little bit of tirespin hurt the trans. We have a Rossler TH400 behind an Andy Jensen built 555 right now in my brother's Chevelle... He beats and burns the living balls off that car. It goes 10.0's @ 133 on motor with no nitrous. He regularly takes the car on the street for joyrides... and I've driven it myself, doing 1-2-3 burnouts, hundreds of feet long, sometimes peddling too.
I've got a hard time believing a TH400 is anything but an incredibly robust transmission when built properly... All it takes though, is one simple screwup or a valvebody problem to smoke one.
UPDATE:
The trans was returned to the builder for inspection and found to be in perfect condition.
The converter was returned to PTC and found to be in perfect condition.
The noise and the metal came from SOMEWHERE and somebody is fvcking LYING to me.
Since the metal was non-magnetic and the converter only has maybe 4 parts in it, I think it may be time to find a new trans builder, or start building them myself again.
SOMETHING fvcked up somewhere, and I'll be damned if I want to put this trans and converter back in and pull it all back out again.
The trans was returned to the builder for inspection and found to be in perfect condition.
The converter was returned to PTC and found to be in perfect condition.
The noise and the metal came from SOMEWHERE and somebody is fvcking LYING to me.
Since the metal was non-magnetic and the converter only has maybe 4 parts in it, I think it may be time to find a new trans builder, or start building them myself again.
SOMETHING fvcked up somewhere, and I'll be damned if I want to put this trans and converter back in and pull it all back out again.
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
Yep.. the trans IS perfect.. Now that the builder changed out the bad part..Did you watch him do the teardown??
Nope... and the funny thing is... he didn't have time to pull it apart while I was there, but had time to BS with me for an hour in the office.
After I left, he called me approx 45 minutes later (before I even made it home) and said it looks like new inside.
I'll bet money he pulled it apart the minute I left his parking lot and found the problem.
It HAD to be an obvious problem, due to the amount of metal in the oil.
Kenny @ PTC said the converter looks perfect, but he'd throw new bearings in it just to be safe. He said it's a steel stator spragless unit so it should handle any abuse I can give it.
If I hear noise again, I will pull the trans apart myself. I've done a few of them before, so I'm sure I can handle another one.
Kenny also said whatever method I used to flush it must have worked because he didn't see a spec of dirt or debris in it.
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
Yep... EXACTLY what he did.. He knew from the "git go" what was wrong when you called him.
Like you said.. not rocket science.
My tranny guy built me a 400.. 90% stock parts and his homebrewed brake, DW's converter circuit restrictor. Ran it for 3 yrs, running 9's in a 3700# turd..
Changed the fluid once. Always used Amsoil.
Like you said.. not rocket science.
My tranny guy built me a 400.. 90% stock parts and his homebrewed brake, DW's converter circuit restrictor. Ran it for 3 yrs, running 9's in a 3700# turd..
Changed the fluid once. Always used Amsoil.
