Tin Man Cold-air **wow**
- Thread starter Axl
- Start date
Turbo Indian
worlds quickest 6cyl bird
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2003
I have not used your product but this part of your statement is not true. what about this system? it's the one I personally like due to the more stock appearing.BuickGn Boosted said:
http://www.psmbuick.com/products_coldair.asp
TR Custom Parts
Mark Hueffman - Owner
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
TurboIndian said:
Sorry, meant hard piped system.
DonnieShort
Who's Next?
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
6GUN said:Axl,
Thanks for your positive feedback on the"TINMAN" Cold-air kit! Are you sure you didn't pop a "Viagra" before installing your kit?...... actually,your results are quite typical . Glad to hear you are happy with our product.
We manufacture the "TINMAN" Cold-air kits to be the best possible fit, quality and performance available, bar none. They have been designed and tested to outflow any other 4" kit on the market for the Turbo Buicks. The "TINMAN" Cold-air kit should be the last intake kit you'll need until your Buick is running into the 8's.
Rodman99999, you can see or order a "TINMAN" Cold-air intake by clicking here: www.modelman5.com/tinmancoldairkit.htm By the way, the price is now $189.00 . Haven't updated the website yet.Sorry.But remember, you get what you pay for ,and component costs have been constantly rising lately.
Antagon, the "TINMAN" kit doesn't use a rubber elbow like the big mouth kit. It uses 4" mandrel bent elbows that will fit without drilling holes or cutting the radiator support opening.. And it will allow you to keep your fuel vapor cannister in it's stock location too. It also includes a better filter than most other kits are using.
And DonnieShort, just for the record, the' TINMAN kit was designed back in the early 1990's. At the time, kits were custom made to order, and we didn't advertise them. In 1999 , the TINMAN Cold air intake kit was advertised on the web by myself, and my dealers. Just weeks later it was "copied" and others were advertising their kits as "TINMAN" copies. That includes the big mouth kit which used a similar approach to bringing in cool air, BUT IS NOT identical to the "TINMAN" kit. If you need more info, call me or E mail me.#'s are on my website. ..There IS a difference....And BTW , the TINMAN kit NEVER, I repeat, NEVER used flex or dryer hose. Always mandrel formed, rigid elbows.
The TINMAN Cold-air kits are made and marketed directly by "Tinman Performance Products Co.( a division of Tylko Metal Fab) in Sterling Heights, MI. Also available thru it's dealers across the country. WE also are now producing 3", 3 1/2" and 4" MAF pipes to work with or without the TINMAN kits going to the turbo, with any MAF sensor or without MAF.
OK I feel better now.
Axl, Thanks again, glad you liked the kit. Thanks for sharing your results and input on the TINMAN Cold-air kit !!!
Al.......aka The "Tinman"
87' GN ,factory stock longblock, TA-49 turbo, 10.93 sec. @ 123.8 mph
I was thinking of the Pete Tomka kit, I apoligize I got yours and his mixed up.
But never did I say that your product was bad, it's great. But how does it out flow anything else when it's the same? You look at them side by side and there's no difference other than your kit uses a 90º hard pipe to go through the radiator support and the big mouth uses a 90º rubber elbow hose to go through the support. The reason for using the rubber elbow was to keep from having to enlarge the hole in the radiator support because the 4" hard pipe was a little too big to go through, at least the 4" pipe we used did. So the rubber 90 is just barley squeezed on the top and bottom for a perfect snug fit. I would like to see the flow comparisons. No flames or disrespect meant
DonnieShort,
No disrespect taken.
Just remember, you can't judge a book by it's cover. Example: the filter used in the TINMAN Cold-air kit was flow bench tested against the same size K&N filter( which i used to use many years ago). Both were 4" neck by 9" long cone. The filter now used in the TINMAN kit out flowed the K&N BIG time. In fact it even outflowed a 4" X 12" long K&N. ( not to bash K&N, they make some decent filters).
The TINMAN kit uses hard elbows , mandrel bent to a propietary angle( not 90 deg.) to fit thru the rad. support opening WITHOUT CUTTING. And yes, if things aren't "just right" the elbows won't fit. But these will flow better than flex or a rubber elbow.( No flames intended)
With 35 years in the airflow design buisness, I've learned a few things regarding airflow.
Remember, I originally designed the "TINMAN" kit for my own GN. Not JUST to make a product "to sell". I wanted it to be the ultimate Cold air intake set up for our Turbo Buicks and am always looking for ways it can be improved upon.
And Axl, Thanks again for the referral. Word of mouth is the best salesman. Yes, Bruce @ Aggressive uses the "TINMAN" kit on his own TSE Winning 87GN & has run in the 9's at over 140 mph. He has literally sold and installed HUNDREDS of TINMAN kits over the last few years !! Go Bruce !
Take-Care
Al
87' GN , factory stock longblock, TA-49 turbo..........10.93sec. @123.8mph.
No disrespect taken.
Just remember, you can't judge a book by it's cover. Example: the filter used in the TINMAN Cold-air kit was flow bench tested against the same size K&N filter( which i used to use many years ago). Both were 4" neck by 9" long cone. The filter now used in the TINMAN kit out flowed the K&N BIG time. In fact it even outflowed a 4" X 12" long K&N. ( not to bash K&N, they make some decent filters).
The TINMAN kit uses hard elbows , mandrel bent to a propietary angle( not 90 deg.) to fit thru the rad. support opening WITHOUT CUTTING. And yes, if things aren't "just right" the elbows won't fit. But these will flow better than flex or a rubber elbow.( No flames intended)
With 35 years in the airflow design buisness, I've learned a few things regarding airflow.
Remember, I originally designed the "TINMAN" kit for my own GN. Not JUST to make a product "to sell". I wanted it to be the ultimate Cold air intake set up for our Turbo Buicks and am always looking for ways it can be improved upon.
And Axl,
Thanks again for the referral. Word of mouth is the best salesman. Yes, Bruce @ Aggressive uses the "TINMAN" kit on his own TSE Winning 87GN & has run in the 9's at over 140 mph. He has literally sold and installed HUNDREDS of TINMAN kits over the last few years !! Go Bruce ! Take-Care
Al
87' GN , factory stock longblock, TA-49 turbo..........10.93sec. @123.8mph.
pcella84GN
Pcella84GN
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2005
why dont u here that shudder type noise on the hot air cars?
Dammit Mark got to this thread before I got my chance to say I'M THE ONLY ONE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH THE BIG MOUTH, I don't like to bad mouth products, especially when everybody but me is having great results. It seemed mathamatically impossible, since I'm trying to fit a 4in elbow through a small-than-4-inch opening. Oh well. I'm used to nothing working right for me I'm just wondering how the hell the tinman kit gets a 4in HARD PIPE through there. Guess I'll fiddle with the car some more this weekend.
EDIT: And I find it odd every time I mention a small problem with the bigmouth, whether it be on a board or in an email, I get a resounding responce of "millions sold, everyone loves it, you suck!"
I'm just wondering how the hell the tinman kit gets a 4in HARD PIPE through there. Guess I'll fiddle with the car some more this weekend.EDIT: And I find it odd every time I mention a small problem with the bigmouth, whether it be on a board or in an email, I get a resounding responce of "millions sold, everyone loves it, you suck!"
Antagon said:
Upon first lining up the 4in hard pipe I was like these guys are crazy this thing will never fit, but then I realized that the charcoal canister relocation kit that I got with my ATR CAI put the vapor/charcoal canister right in the way. After removing the canister I found that by turning the pipe in a certain direction it would slide through the opening, no creases, no nothing, PERFECT!
BuickGn Boosted said:Thank you for your support.
The rubber elbow going thru the radiator support will bump up against the headlight bucket and dimple it just a bit but if it is causing a major restriction he needs to just move the elbow over.
I've sold more than 500 of these so I must be doing something right. We are the only ones offering a complete setup from the turbo to the air filter if you also buy one of our MAF or inlet pipes. BTW, our plain aluminum BIG MOUTH kits are $150.
I have been using your complete CAI setup since last year and I have about 40+ Turbolink logs that showed my MAF numbers increase by over 20 when I switched from under the hood to your setup. The MAT temps I saw sitting at a light exceeded 135 degrees at times before the CAI. Now it stays at ambient. Great product and I have the complete chrome setup so it looks awesome.
Royal-T-Ltd
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2003
What material is used? is it steel or aluminum?
84GNwith87eng
Member
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2004
TTT
Hey people, can the tinman be used with a stock MAF? Does that still give enough room for the fuel vapor canistor?
Hey people, can the tinman be used with a stock MAF? Does that still give enough room for the fuel vapor canistor?
DonnieShort
Who's Next?
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
6GUN said:DonnieShort,
No disrespect taken.
Just remember, you can't judge a book by it's cover. Example: the filter used in the TINMAN Cold-air kit was flow bench tested against the same size K&N filter( which i used to use many years ago). Both were 4" neck by 9" long cone. The filter now used in the TINMAN kit out flowed the K&N BIG time. In fact it even outflowed a 4" X 12" long K&N. ( not to bash K&N, they make some decent filters).
The TINMAN kit uses hard elbows , mandrel bent to a propietary angle( not 90 deg.) to fit thru the rad. support opening WITHOUT CUTTING. And yes, if things aren't "just right" the elbows won't fit. But these will flow better than flex or a rubber elbow.( No flames intended)
With 35 years in the airflow design buisness, I've learned a few things regarding airflow.
Remember, I originally designed the "TINMAN" kit for my own GN. Not JUST to make a product "to sell". I wanted it to be the ultimate Cold air intake set up for our Turbo Buicks and am always looking for ways it can be improved upon.
And Axl,
Take-Care
Al
87' GN , factory stock longblock, TA-49 turbo..........10.93sec. @123.8mph.
No doubt your filter will flow better. But as far as the piping set up itself, how much better does yours flow vs. others? What are the numbers? Just honestly curious
84GNwith87eng,
The answer to your 2 questions are YES, and YES. The TINMAN Cold air kit with work with ANY MAF on the market and you can retain the fuel vapor cannister in it's stock location.
DonnieShort,
I'm not going to get into a competitor bashing contest here. I have flow tested the "TINMAN" intake kit as well as other kits. ......and I have yet to see a competitor offer any flow test info on their kits. BUT I will say that the "TINMAN "Kit buried the flow bench I used (bench's max capacity) @ approx. 1,300cfm at alot less than the " standard" 28" static pressure(water column), which means it will flow alot more. And 1,300 cfm is enuf to support approx. 850+ HP.
Al
The answer to your 2 questions are YES, and YES. The TINMAN Cold air kit with work with ANY MAF on the market and you can retain the fuel vapor cannister in it's stock location.
DonnieShort,
I'm not going to get into a competitor bashing contest here. I have flow tested the "TINMAN" intake kit as well as other kits. ......and I have yet to see a competitor offer any flow test info on their kits. BUT I will say that the "TINMAN "Kit buried the flow bench I used (bench's max capacity) @ approx. 1,300cfm at alot less than the " standard" 28" static pressure(water column), which means it will flow alot more. And 1,300 cfm is enuf to support approx. 850+ HP.
Al
turbodave231
Moderator
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Tinman Products Rock! And Al is a great guy. He designed a nice Custom System for my Stage 2 car.
Dave
Dave
GNAsuka said:
talmost looks like an Accel Cool Blue filter. I'm thinking about changing my K&N to a blue filter that as the filter element in the cone as well. I understand that these flow significantly more because as air is pulled in the cone, it sucks even more air from the sides. My car is only a fair weather vehicle so sucking water is never a concern.
DonnieShort
Who's Next?
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
6GUN said:84GNwith87eng,
DonnieShort,
I'm not going to get into a competitor bashing contest here. I have flow tested the "TINMAN" intake kit as well as other kits. ......and I have yet to see a competitor offer any flow test info on their kits. BUT I will say that the "TINMAN "Kit buried the flow bench I used (bench's max capacity) @ approx. 1,300cfm at alot less than the " standard" 28" static pressure(water column), which means it will flow alot more. And 1,300 cfm is enuf to support approx. 850+ HP.
Al
I'm not asking for a bashing session. I would just honestly like to know how much better it flows compared to brand X, brand Y etc. You don't have to name names. Better yet, if you don't mind just email me with the numbers so you can mame names
donnieandheather@alltel.net Like I said I'm just curious to know how much better it flows.GNAsuka,
You can purchase the hi-flow filters from Tinman Performance ....... Email me @ tylkometal @ prodigy.net for more info.
Marc87GN,...........This is not an Accel Blue filter and even tho the Blue does look cool , it's what's inside that makes the difference. Also, save your money regarding the cone filters with thw inverted cones on the end of the filters. I also sell them. They look cool and cost more, but I have flow tested them and they don't flow as good as the filter that comes with the "TINMAN" Cold-air kit !!
The "Tinman"
You can purchase the hi-flow filters from Tinman Performance ....... Email me @ tylkometal @ prodigy.net for more info.
Marc87GN,...........This is not an Accel Blue filter and even tho the Blue does look cool , it's what's inside that makes the difference. Also, save your money regarding the cone filters with thw inverted cones on the end of the filters. I also sell them. They look cool and cost more, but I have flow tested them and they don't flow as good as the filter that comes with the "TINMAN" Cold-air kit !!
The "Tinman"
Given that you can make 400hp on *around* 600CFM, I really dont see how comparing a 1300CFM tube to a 1100CFM tube, given most cars will never approach that number, is a way to say one kit is better than the other. No bashing, just something that comes to mind. When it comes to CAI, what Im mostly concerned with is the temp difference and what the kit is going to do with the air stream. CAI kits usually create alot of dead spots and other areas with much higher air flow than normal. Depending on where the MAF elements are sitting in the air stream, this can screw with MAF readings quite a bit. It can jump up "20", but it doesnt mean there is more air going in. It might just mean that your MAF is reading an area of the tube that is flowing more air. A dead spot at low flow may end up being an area of higher flow at higher rpms when the air stream "stretches". CIA kits were the hot ticket with alot of stang guys. I tried it once, and pulled it off 2 days later cause it created funky fuel trims across the board. And this was with the filter in the fenderwell, away from a direct air stream. I rotated the elbow around, but if I got the trims right at idle, they would be screwed up at a higher rpm.
I made my own high flowing, filter under the hood intake tube setup (looked better than everything on the market as well) for about 25 bucks. 4" O.D. Polycarbonate tubing from Mcmaster, band clamps and a 4" rubber elbow (turbo inlet for a diesel truck) from airflo.com, and a 4 to 3.5" reducer from Home Depot. I drilled a hole in the poly, tapped it, and screwed in a pipe fitting for a rain bird sprinkler system, and plugged my PCV into it. I drilled another hole at the elbow by the TB and plugged my IAt sensor there. It sucked air from behind the headlight and my intake temps were only 15 degrees above ambient at a stop light, and at ambient while cruising. What puzzles me, is on my buick, I have a hole on the first elbow of my buickGN.com intake tube for the IAT sensor. Its literally right after the filter. If I pull the sensor out and lay it right next to the filter, the temps are barely above ambient. If I plug the sensor into the tube, it jumps up another 20 degrees. It doesnt make sense, given that I'm right there at the filter, so the temps shouldnt jump up that much. The tube isnt hot, and its not like the air spends enough time in the tube to heat up. Its weird that the IAT temps can be so different on exactly the same setup on 2 different cars. Well, come to think of it, the headers are much more exposed on the buick than the cobra. (you have to drop the K-Member and hold the engine up with a cherry picker just to swap headers).
So what do you guys have to say about the air stream on a CAI setup and the effect it has on fuel trims? Have you played around with any of that? If I can see some dyno or E.T. numbers that show an improvement over a regular intake tube with the filter behind the headlight (not the stock setup), I may drop a few bucks and grab one of these kits.
I made my own high flowing, filter under the hood intake tube setup (looked better than everything on the market as well) for about 25 bucks. 4" O.D. Polycarbonate tubing from Mcmaster, band clamps and a 4" rubber elbow (turbo inlet for a diesel truck) from airflo.com, and a 4 to 3.5" reducer from Home Depot. I drilled a hole in the poly, tapped it, and screwed in a pipe fitting for a rain bird sprinkler system, and plugged my PCV into it. I drilled another hole at the elbow by the TB and plugged my IAt sensor there. It sucked air from behind the headlight and my intake temps were only 15 degrees above ambient at a stop light, and at ambient while cruising. What puzzles me, is on my buick, I have a hole on the first elbow of my buickGN.com intake tube for the IAT sensor. Its literally right after the filter. If I pull the sensor out and lay it right next to the filter, the temps are barely above ambient. If I plug the sensor into the tube, it jumps up another 20 degrees. It doesnt make sense, given that I'm right there at the filter, so the temps shouldnt jump up that much. The tube isnt hot, and its not like the air spends enough time in the tube to heat up. Its weird that the IAT temps can be so different on exactly the same setup on 2 different cars. Well, come to think of it, the headers are much more exposed on the buick than the cobra. (you have to drop the K-Member and hold the engine up with a cherry picker just to swap headers).
So what do you guys have to say about the air stream on a CAI setup and the effect it has on fuel trims? Have you played around with any of that? If I can see some dyno or E.T. numbers that show an improvement over a regular intake tube with the filter behind the headlight (not the stock setup), I may drop a few bucks and grab one of these kits.
