Turbo Buick Related - Kirban 2 Cents worth

[turbo39151]

Ok Dennis, you've inspired me to tell a terrible tale. I may have posted elsewhere about this or maybe it's that I've told the story so many times to my friends...

Well, here goes... (This is a two part fiasco)

This past summer after having caught the bug to pick up a few more TR's and finally breaking down and purchasing a car trailer, I started shopping around. I found a good deal in VA. We left our home in KY with our dogs in the Expedition and travelled to VA. While on that trip I got a call from another seller in NJ. I told him that I'd come out the following weekend (That's part two ) After a pretty long drive, we pulled in to the owners driveway. The whole family was super nice but the car was a little more rough than described.

Apparently the car had been parked in the backyard under a cover that had been bungee corded tightly so all of the moisture just sat there with the car and surface rust was everywhere. I was not happy about this but we worked out a deal, and they helped me load the car (which was hard since the rotors seemed to be seized).

Anyway, we left there and were on our way home through TN when we heard a loud pop sound. The truck didn't pull so it wasn't a tire. The trailer was still there (I was afraid I'd look back and it would be gone) I slowed considerably and pulled over on the side of this hill. I popped the hood. Nothing seemed out of place. But when the engine was running I'd get this pop, pop ,pop sound. I got back in and limped the truck to the nearest exit. I thought I was having a bad day but it was gonna get worse...

I called AAA and they said my CA membership was not good for KY so I had to buy a new one~ I think that was about $250. It was about 4:30 on Sunday afternoon. Most everything was closed and there we were stuck in some small town. I finally got a tow truck driver to come out and when he arrived in his truck I was glad to get some help. When he got out of the car, I thought he was still in it. The guy was like 6'10" -scared the crap out of my dogs too . The guy asked me what had happened but I frankly didn't know. He asked me to pop the hood and discovered that the coilpack had become dislodged due to a sparkplug coming out of the head. We tried to fix it on the spot but the threads on the head were stripped.

The tow truck driver found us a motel close to the ford dealer and towed my truck, trailer and Gn to the dealership. The motel was a nightmare. The kind of place they find bodies... We did not sleep well at all. Don't even ask about the shower. Funny though, they had wireless internet. So, I researched the problem and found the fix. Apparently these Aluminum heads are prone to this issue. (First I'd ever heard of it)

That Monday morning I go to the dealership and they take their sweet time looking at the truck. I'm expecting maybe a hundred or so charge to tap and install and helicoil. They quoted me $2500!!! I told them to politely kiss my arse! They still had the audacity to charge me to open the hood even after I told them the problem and there was no need for diagnosis..

I ended up having to pay the tow truck driver an additioanl $300 to tow my mess to my house a couple of hours away. And since I had the dogs with me we had to rent another suv. Of course the local places would not rent to us sicne we needed to return the car out of town. So we had to go to the airport, pay some exorbitant fee and finally rent the suv.

When we finally got home, I bought the kit to repair the head and did the entire procedure in about 1 hour and at the cost of $40.

The following weekend we went to NJ... I'll get to that story here shortly...

 

[turbo39151]

Part Two...

After the last weekend's fiasco, I decided to be prepared. I had a full set of tools, new spark plugs and repair kits just in case I'd have another spark plug issue. I asked the other half to pick up a few coils to bring along. She forgot...

We had left on a friday evening with dogs in tow and about a hundred miles into the trip, just after stopping at an exit to get some food - we left and were driving down a dark stretch of road when we heard the pop sound again. There was not place to turn around so we had to drive for several miles at a snails pace and return to our previous exit which happened to have an Autozone. When we finally arrived and parked under so super bright lights of the Kroger we discovered that the Autozone had just closed and that we did not have a coil pack.

We tapped and prepped the head in less than 20 minutes but were stuck waiting till morning to buy a new coil. There was only one hotel close by and it was one that did not allow dogs and only had one way in so we could not sneak in with the dogs. They're big and loud so it's never easy...

We had to sleep in the truck overnight with the dogs. It was pleasant.

The next morning I ran over to the autozone and purchased several coils. I installed the one I needed and we proceeded on our trek to NJ.

Somewhere in PA we ran out of gas about 2 miles from the gas station... I should have known then that this was going to be another great day.

When we finally got to NJ the car looked great. The engine bay was good and the interior looked pretty good. There were small rust bubbles which I had not seen in the pictures and from the sellers claim- there was no rust the car was 100% solid. Well, not exactly.
The trunk had rust spots in the seams and was looking less good...
I squatted down to look under the door seam, it was ok. When I placed my hand on the door sill to get up again, the floor crunched. That did not sound good. So, I removed the sill plate and pulled the carpet. Besides the puddle of water that came off the carpet as I lifted it, I saw the lush green grass under the car- through the floor!

I checked the other side and it was the same. I called my body shop and they stated that they did not want to mess with floors and that I should not buy it. The guy was ready to practically give the car away but I told him that he could probably make more on parting the car out and that I would be happy to buy a significant amount of parts from him. I should have just bought the car myself but I hate the thought of parting a GN. So, I left it and went home empty handed. It was a very long drive all for nothing. The guy ended up selling the car to someone else. I do not know if he disclosed any of the issues we had seen.

Live and learn...

The highlight of the trip was getting to stop and eat at Boston Market. One of my favorites...

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

Good stories when reading the first one what came immediate to my mind was the Steve Martin/John Candy movie Planes-Trains & Automobiles.....

The one with rust issues....I always tell people no matter how much rust you see initially twice s much is not visible immediately....

Keep the stories coming,

here is another quickee kirban one:

Locally to me a customer had a low mileage GN customized......he died unexpectedly, and his wife call same about possibly buying his car.

I had only seen the car in passing never looked at it real close in the years.
I make arrangements to go see his wife. This was about a week after he had died.

I start to look over the car and I see she is quite angry noting she is angry about something related to the car. I ask her and she says in cleaning out his desk at his office she found a entire file of receipts showing the huge amounts of money he spent over the years on his GN, some of it with our company.

None of this of course she realized. In looking over the car I look under the car and I can't believe on the passenger side floor pan in the back seat area, their is rust and holes in the floor yet the car does not show any rust elsewhere.

I then ask his wife did he wash the car a lot? She says oh yes every week and then would put it in the garage. My guess is he would wash it water probably leaked in the door glass and the carpet works like a sponge, and since he garaged it, making it difficult to dry out.

It was ashame, that a car so solid would have a rust issue in the floor pan due to something like washing the car...I did not buy the car.

Her last comment to me was, had she known what he had spent on the car she would have buried the car with him.

true story

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Keep them coming...enjoy reading them...member it can b screw ups or things you regret related to a turbo regal.

 

[BAGN]

I'm stuck at work on this Saturday (and its SLOW!!!) so I'll chime in with a old Buick story. Hope ya'll enjoy......

Several years ago...... about 15+ A customer of ours who had a shop on the east coast called us to let us know that he had a customer who died and was selling a garage kept, low mileage 87 GN fairly cheap (price escapes me at this time) After arranging to go buy it and digging a little deeper into the story, We had found out why the owner had died unexpectedly...... He was in a police standoff with the local SWAT TEAM (He was in the garage, behind the GN) Lets just say the the guy didn't make it out alive and the car only suffered "4" gun shots to the passenger side (none were fatal to the car or effected any operations). We did in fact purchase the car, My mom drove it as a daily driver for years (same GN that is on the Direct Scan Box) Eventually sold the car to our Shop Helps Brother and the car is still in the Houston area today, And yes, The bullet holes are still in it. :biggrin: The cars nickname was "Bullet"

True story,
Chris

 

[karkid]

That security system should be pretty easy to build. I'd say all you would really need is the L.E.D., a resistor of the right resistance (I would have to figure that one out) and a relay. You could make it all pretty by putting it on a board/in a little plastic box.

Alarms are only as good as the install, and you can do some amazing tricks with relays.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

That security system should be pretty easy to build. I'd say all you would really need is the L.E.D., a resistor of the right resistance (I would have to figure that one out) and a relay. You could make it all pretty by putting it on a board/in a little plastic box.

Alarms are only as good as the install, and you can do some amazing tricks with relays.

kirban 2 cents worth

Source I am using the guy is an engineer very smart but currently out of work so I am sure he can make it happen and improve on the system we sold years ago. We are looking at doing two different simple systems....neither should involved cutting more than one wire in the car and no siren alarm....I have several customers that still have my old system still working in their cars after a dozen years.

Watch for update....member never out of ideas its finding the solutions and then getting someone to make it in small numbers so it can be priced to sell.

I know the game quite well....

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Will keep you informed.....

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

Glad to see more stories....great reading....

Kinda of burned out tonite as our Open House was yesterday....so here are some quick facts to digest:

We have sold 8 real GNXs....the lowest mileage on as 589 miles for 81 grand. Highest miles was 179,000 for $13,900.

The 589 mile one friend of mine found that one advertised locally in his area. He was smart enough to go see it and put a deposit on it to lock down a deal for me to go up and make sure it was the real deal and have the funds to make it happen.

The year 1999 and 2000 was a milestone buying and selling 44 Turbo Regal in each of those 2 years. If you do the math works out to one every 7-8 days....a lot of work considering I had to personally go get most of them travelling up to 700 miles or so.

Been burned 3 times that come to mind once by a dealer on a mileage issue and twice by private parties...

Once in awhile like probably some of you I have jumped the gun and assumed a 20,000 mile GN garaged kept since new would be in very very nice condition. Especially say 5-8 years ago.

I remember this one in western, Ohio, on the way to see it and buy it I picked up Pete the window rattle guy who resides in Columbus. Any time I am in his area and I am buying dinner Pete naturally is available...

So we head out getting to the guys house around 8 at nite. Owner has the car outside and is cleaning it, while he is his 6-7 year old son is bouncing up and down on the seats. Not a vision you want to see as a first impression on a 20,000 mile GN.

Car has no body side molding, and I am looking down the sides of the car and it looks like his kid has scratched or dinged every panel with his bike. Disheartening to say the least, because as you know the check is already filled out for the agreed price, the banks are closed and I only want a cash difference if a new deal is struck.

I tell the owner, the numbers just won't work for me, based on viewing the car in person. He wants to deal, but I decide to pass. Brake lite was coming on, car had a miss probably from sitting. Member I am not a mechanic, and I work on the theory, that if I see too many issues initially, usually means a few others exist or will surface once I own the car.

So, we leave and Pete of course says lets go to a movie and I tell him rite, I have drive 400 plus miles, totally wasted and you want to go to a movie, which would delay my return home even more.

Needless to say I took Pete back to Columbus made it about half way home before getting a room.

While its true some cars are a pleasant surprise or better than you expect, some times the opposite is true as others have pointed out in their stories. All the trailering I have done I have never broken down on the road aside from one bad accident. (Next story)

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Keep them coming

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

Another Kirban Kwick story

A good friend of mine who has bought a few turbo cars that have sold for him brought me a 1986-1987 GN maybe 3 years ago to sell for him. One of those cars that the 20 footer description would apply to.

He dropped the car off at my house and I gave it a quick glance. Car originally came from New Jersey.

Well later that week for kicks I wanted to see what body bushings were "missing"
and I started to look at the frame rails that were at the very back of the car. Back near where the bumper shocks attach.

What I saw, I had never ever seen before. I knew my buddy would have to take the car back to the seller based on what I saw.

Someone had attempted to fix what was obviousily very bad frame rust and formed the frame rail out of fiberglass and painted it black. It wasn't even steel! While it was only maybe 5-6 inches in length, you don't want the frame to be made from fiberglass.

The car would not be legal for the highway probably in almost every state. Here is a case where a magnet would never stick! Along those same line I have seen cars that you can literally lift the back end of the car off the frame as the body bushing holes have rusted so bad they are useless at their purpose.

True story


kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Like to hear more from the readers of this forum. Good or bad experience or something dumb you did related to your turbo regal and regret.

 

[salvageV6]

Rear frames are over-rated all they do is hold the bumper on.

Hey at least I used 2"x2" steel to fix mine. :smile:

Rear body bushings are over-rated as well.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

From your address I can see why you the car frame pictured has rust issues. Consider this: You say rear body bushings are over rated....few years back a customer of ours was in a front end collision....

Body shop, looking ove the damage made this remark. The front frame braces that he had installed helped keep the damage from being more extensive.

Anything you can do to tighten up the body to the frame is a definately plus not only for better ride, but in case something like a collison results.

Back in the GTO days I remember go ing through a junk yard in Georgia and we could remove front fenders with ease....no rust no rusty jones no undercoating....

take care

denniskirban@yahoo.com

kirbanperformance.com

I imagine you probably had to fix the lower doors as well?

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

Another kwick kirban story to jump start this thread.

It was the summer of 2000 or 2001. I had a customer of ours call me who lived in northern Georgia, wanting to sell his car. He had just bought a new Audi S4. First year of the new twin turbo Audi S4 six speed.

In talking to him I discovered he was going to go on vacation in South Carolina. That year the BMW National met was being held at the BMW factory in South Carolina near Greer. I called Pete Serio up in Ohio asked him if he was up for another road trip. We would attend the BMW national event and he could drive my personal car home. I had a gorgeous 1995 BMW M3 luxury coupe. At the time.

The plan was the owner of the Turbo-T would have his wife drive his Turbo Regal and meet us at the BMW event and then continue on to their vacation. I took a dealer plate with me and we met at the BMW plant and did the deal.

At the time the turbo owner let me drive his new S4 twin turbo. I was impressed all wheel drive and great power in a tight package. Probably one of the few times a Turbo Regal was photographed on the grounds of the BMW plant. (Years later I would own a S4 Audi)

I drove the Turbo car back home. It had this slight stumble right off idle but otherwise ran great. The owner had told me about this and that no one could figure it out in all the years he owned it why it had that stumble. I think he had bought the car brand new.

The BMW event included a road trip and tour of the Biltmore estate which was fun.
BMW national event is a real eye opener for concours judging. They use a method that is unlike any method I have ever seen. Everything in the trunk gets put on the ground.

The one judge carries a box of q-tips a big box maybe 500. Its like a white glove test, every place they find dirt they leave a q-tip. The more q-tips they leave on your car the less points you get. Problem is as I saw it almost every BMW sedan anyhow has a sunroof and sunroofs needs some grease to function so that area always got a q-tip.

Going by memory I think at the time the new M3 was being displayed 2001 model?

The entire set up down there at the plant s tremendous with a museum etc.
Once back home I had my mechanic go over the turbo car. It took him several days of testing etc to pinpoint why the car had this slight stumble out of the gate.

Finally he figured it out. The cam sensor was installed 2-3 teeth off where it should be. That's all it was a simple thing like that. I sold that car locally to a mechanic who worked for a garage in Philadelphia.

I find out later, he was reading one of my books at work, his boss noticed the name kirban. He tells his employee that he just bought a house from a Kirban and was curious if their was a connection.....turns out his boss had bought my parents house.

true story......

Lets here one of yours next


kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

cars owned 1995, 1996, 2002 M3 BMWs.....also 540 6-speed sport model.

 

[LEGACY_GN]

Legacy GN

My father bought the Grand National I now own when I was 12. Drove it for 5 years as a daily driver and put a 120k miles on it all while doing everything to make it faster. He sold it to a guy he worked with in 2000 telling me he couldn't sell it to me as I'd kill myself in it.

My father always had a fleet of great cars including a 69 GTO Judge, 74 Trans Am 455, 59 Bonnieville and various others. My parents were divorced and I lived with my mother and we never had the best relationship.

When he got that car I think we both were in love with it from the start. I thought it was it was the coolest car I'd ever seen and to him it was a modern muscle car. For the first time I was part of my fathers life and it was the GN that brought us together. I read all his magazines, memorized the parts catalogs (Thanks Kirban) and we would talk endlessly about tricks to make it fast and what the top guys were doing (Conley). We went every year for 4 years straight to the Buick Nationals and it was what I looked forward to all year long. My father and I were best friends for a time that I still cherish. We grew apart again as he loss interest in the GN and I entered High School along with the obligatory rebelious phase.

2 years ago I was finally able to track down the guy my dad sold his GN to and he had left it sitting in a barn never driving it all those years (1400 miles). I offered him what he paid for it and he sold it to me. I had it shipped to Houston where I had moved to and finally after an engine and tranny rebuild is ready for some passes down the strip and down memory lane.

My father is meeting me and our old friend the GN in BG next week.

 

[tc86gn]

Basket Case

Just like others, I wanted one of these ever since they came out.

Almost bought a new 89 TTA when they came out but, couldn't quite swing it financially.

I was working at a friends body shop painting my 86 TA in the evenings and on weekends. A young kid was working there who had a GN and had the mechanical aptitude of zero. I asked about buying it several times to no avail.

This kid dogged the hell out of this car. He would haul ass down dirt roads and I don't think he ever took off without burning the tires. Over the span of about 3 months this kid totally dismantled this car to "restore" it without a clue as to what he was doing. Finally one day he got a job offer back in his hometown in Ohio that he could not turn down.

When he called me he said he was moving back to Ohio, he had no idea how he was going to haul all of his stuff back North. I suggested that he trade that GN to me for my 87 3/4 ton pickup and he would have something to carry all his junk to Ohio.

It was a deal!! It took me 3 trailer loads to get this car home. It was quite difficult to put this thing together without having one to look at. But, I was successful.

About a year later this guy came to visit old friends and came by to see the car. He was impressed and offered to buy it. I refused.

He also asked me if he could drive it. Again I refused. He left mad and I haven't heard from him since.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

My father bought the Grand National I now own when I was 12. Drove it for 5 years as a daily driver and put a 120k miles on it all while doing everything to make it faster. He sold it to a guy he worked with in 2000 telling me he couldn't sell it to me as I'd kill myself in it.

My father always had a fleet of great cars including a 69 GTO Judge, 74 Trans Am 455, 59 Bonnieville and various others. My parents were divorced and I lived with my mother and we never had the best relationship.

When he got that car I think we both were in love with it from the start. I thought it was it was the coolest car I'd ever seen and to him it was a modern muscle car. For the first time I was part of my fathers life and it was the GN that brought us together. I read all his magazines, memorized the parts catalogs (Thanks Kirban) and we would talk endlessly about tricks to make it fast and what the top guys were doing (Conley). We went every year for 4 years straight to the Buick Nationals and it was what I looked forward to all year long. My father and I were best friends for a time that I still cherish. We grew apart again as he loss interest in the GN and I entered High School along with the obligatory rebelious phase.

2 years ago I was finally able to track down the guy my dad sold his GN to and he had left it sitting in a barn never driving it all those years (1400 miles). I offered him what he paid for it and he sold it to me. I had it shipped to Houston where I had moved to and finally after an engine and tranny rebuild is ready for some passes down the strip and down memory lane.

My father is meeting me and our old friend the GN in BG next week.

kirban 2 cents worth

Great story.....its neat and I am sure other guys can relate to your story maybe not with the Buick but relate on a father thing. See my next post for better explanation on what I mean.

kirbanpeformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

Relating to the above tale and father/son relationship.

Maybe this will trigger memories for readers. I am sure some of us have had good relationships with their Dad maybe some of the time or part of the time or you are fortunate to have always had a good relationship.

Mine has been up and down even though we are only about 22 years apart. As a young teen (1962-63) our taste in music actually crossed paths and we both like the same music rock and roll...for a short period of time.

Turned 16 driving had a brand new car and hefty car payments, grades fell, and rebellion stepped in....

Blew a motor in my 1956 Crown Vic Ford installed a rebuilt one using a tree with a chain on school property spent another 2 weeks trying to get the trans back in the bell housing to no avail. had it towed home in disgust....

Came home from school one day Dad had it towed to a transmisison shop and had it completely fixed for me as a gift...

Joined the army, sent to Vietnam, my Dad pulled some strings and got listed as a writer and was able to travel as a civilian to Vietnam and stayed in my barracks for a week.

Years past, good times bad times....they moved to the west coast. I take a 9,200 mile road trip around the US and surprise Mom and Dad in Spokane, Washington. Visiti with them a week and start the looong road trip home.

Move up to current day folks live about 2 hours away....Mom is wheel chair bound, Dad uses a walker, still drives, although I refuse to ride with him when he does.

We argue, sometimes, but in the end....he is still Dad....

true story

kirbanpeformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

 

[Dennis Kirban]

Just like others, I wanted one of these ever since they came out.

Almost bought a new 89 TTA when they came out but, couldn't quite swing it financially.

I was working at a friends body shop painting my 86 TA in the evenings and on weekends. A young kid was working there who had a GN and had the mechanical aptitude of zero. I asked about buying it several times to no avail.

This kid dogged the hell out of this car. He would haul ass down dirt roads and I don't think he ever took off without burning the tires. Over the span of about 3 months this kid totally dismantled this car to "restore" it without a clue as to what he was doing. Finally one day he got a job offer back in his hometown in Ohio that he could not turn down.

When he called me he said he was moving back to Ohio, he had no idea how he was going to haul all of his stuff back North. I suggested that he trade that GN to me for my 87 3/4 ton pickup and he would have something to carry all his junk to Ohio.

It was a deal!! It took me 3 trailer loads to get this car home. It was quite difficult to put this thing together without having one to look at. But, I was successful.

About a year later this guy came to visit old friends and came by to see the car. He was impressed and offered to buy it. I refused.

He also asked me if he could drive it. Again I refused. He left mad and I haven't heard from him since.

kirban 2 cents worth

Another good story, your persistance paid off and you were smart by not letting him test drive it....

I have bought cars half apart that people have started as a project usually in a garage you can barely walk around. Never do get every single nut and bolt! Reason I simply stripped them for parts.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

we welcome your story.....