What is the biggest turbo you can run on the street

[TType85]

I have a AC 9" 3500 stall converter with my 54 with a .85 precision housing. It is almost too responsive on the street. I think a 3200 stall would be better. With the intake hose off, at idle the turbo bearly spins, if at all.

I'm going to a bigger turbo (70) and I dont think if I match the right exhaust housing with it i'll have ANY problem spooling it up.

My car ran 117.3mph with stock heads through a modified stock IC (necks cut off) with some IC pipes that people say is restrictive (i'll dig up a pic) at 23psi at 3500 ft elevation.

It's all combo and tuning.

 

[Grumpy]

hmmmm have a T-76 with a vig converter in a sbc....ahhhh you would be surprized at the performance an streetability... also have a T-76 for my TTA...Ill let ya know how that works out l8tr

 

[mmccoy]

PT-100

 

[cool 84]

I've been on both sides. I had a 49 for a long time with a 2,600rpm convertor. It was great for the street and spooled at least as fast as stock. Then I went with the 64 with the same convertor and Precision exhaust housing. 5psi is the max boost it will build off the line and it wouldn't do that until I installed the max effort. Slicks would be pointless at this time. It didn't feel any faster power wise but had a lot more lag. Then I started turning up the boost and I realized the difference. Starting around 23psi there was a huge seat of the pants difference over the 49. Once moving like going down the freeway and kicking it down to third it spools plenty fast. I'm installing my convertor as soon as it's running again. I'd have to say the 49 was a lot more fun for street drivng.

 

[lyonsd]

Originally posted by turbolimited

You're kidding yourself if you think a 2800 12 inch converter is gonna be enough stall for a 54!

That's what I'm trying to find out.

Since when is high stall un-streetable, or even undesireable for that matter?

I'm trying to find that out, too!

I've never driven a car with a big turbo and high stall. So that's why I'm here asking these questions. Thanks.

 

[JCotton]

This is a really interesting question, one which there is going to be many different opinions. We all try to base our opinions on what we have experienced, so that is what I'll do. My personal car, last year, ran a CPT76BB turbo on the street. I used a standard 19930 AC convertor in a S2 block with Champ heads. I've taken more than 1 friend for many rides down the highway and anywhere I'd have taken the car when it had much less performance. Of corse I had big injectors and everything else necessary for it to run 9's at the strip. Let me just say this, there wasn't a smaller turboed car, a juiced car, a blowered car or any other car I ran into on the street that could run with me, out of the hole, mid range roll, or top end blast..... nothing. Point being, setting the car up correctly can allow you to run whatevr you want on the street. If you run a te45 and get beat on the street by a car with a ta49, then you didn't match your combo correctly. We build many daily driven street cars with CPT62, 66, qnd 70 turbos, usually BB turbos, that absolutely fly on the street but have had them getting as much as 23 mpg or possibly more on the hghway. Heck we have a new turbo, we call a CPT65, that really rocks on the street, non BB, but great spoolup characteristics with a 3000-3200 convertor. I wouldn't mind putting it up next to a ta49 for alittle comparison test.

 

[lyonsd]

I'd like to find out more about these ball-bearing turbos. I went you your website, Jack, but nothing came up on your "turbo" page.

 

[Boostisgood]

I used the TA-49 for 2 years....and was totally satisfied except for the fact that i wanted to go faster. I switched to the PT-54 about 4 months ago and it is awesome. I also switched from the D5 to a Art Carr 9'' 3200 stall. It spools perfect. Not too fast but not too slow. As far as a 3200 stall being streetable....absolutely. My car is 100% streetable. It is my only car and i drive it everyday. IMHO these cars are streetable until you get above a 4000 stall. Hope this helps ya out.

 

[Wolfj359]

I have practically the same combo as Boostisgood except a TE45 instead of the 54 and its my only car also, drive it everyday with perfect manners.

 

[lyonsd]

Yes, it helps. What kind of gas mileage do you get?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it would seem to me a high stall converter would have a negative effect on stop & go city driving fuel economy. But on the highway, if it's a lock-up converter, then there would be no change. Right?

 

[Turbo231]

I run a T-66 0.89A/R W/P-trim and it's great!
I use a PI "o" pump stall
It has a sling shot feel to it that works great on the street.
Not doggy at all, if you mash it down from a roll all you get is tire smoke. from a stop it will move a few feet, then burn them till you have to let off. I've always been of the idea of buy it once.
Big turbos work great on the street.
You can run a bigger turbo with less problems if you run a DFI or felpro, because a big turbo will out flow your MAF before it even gets going good.

 

[JCotton]

Hi David,

Unfortunately, I haven't had a lot of time to get my turbo section updated, as I prefer to talk directly with our customers and give them the benefits in person. It also allows me to get specific combinations and goals thus enabling me to suggest what I consider to be the best turbo for their combo. As for the convertor, that is more important than any other component to match a turbo to, We generally use the single disc L\U 9.5" convertors for street duty. As for the the benefits of BB turbos, we have found them to give us much more freedom in street use without compromising the TConvertors stall as much as necessary to do with a non BB turbo. As a side note, I have a customer that runs a CPT62comparable to a 54 in flow, run a tight 3000 stall nonL\U convertor and not only achieve great strip times, but also get as much as 22-23mpg on a highway driving. That's a 62 ball bearing turbo. I also have a customer running a CPT65 non BB turbo that has run as fast as 129 in the 1\4 with a 4 bolt housing with very good street manners.
If you get a minute, give me a call and I be happy to help.

 

[GNVAIR]

This same debate/issue has been raging on this board for the past 2 years. The general consensus (and correct me if I am wrong) was that all the turbos out there are modifed Garret units. You do have turbos from Turbonetics, PTE, and John Craig where they would use some of their own specific castings on the compressor and turbine housings. Everything else is standard Garrett.The other consensus was to stay away from Turbonetics as they had not done any R & D work on turbos for Buick applications for years. That was one reason why a majority of people on here have been using turbos from PTE and John Craig. I would like to hear a response from Harry or Joe from PTE with their opinion on this.
Jack........aren't the turbos you are selling Turbonetics units? I am not trying to start anything, but most of us have not heard much about your turbos before. Who builds them?

 

[Wht87T]

Would a TE63E match up well with a 10" 3200 stall?

 

[GNVAIR]

I know a lot of guys run the Art Carr 9inch non lock with that turbo. There are guys that also run the Precision 9.5 as well.
Chad Schwartz is running a PTS 9x11 and that is what I will most likely run with mine. The 10inch might not cut it.

 

[Intercooler]

Originally posted by GNVAIR
This same debate/issue has been raging on this board for the past 2 years. The general consensus (and correct me if I am wrong) was that all the turbos out there are modifed Garret units. You do have turbos from Turbonetics, PTE, and John Craig where they would use some of their own specific castings on the compressor and turbine housings. Everything else is standard Garrett.The other consensus was to stay away from Turbonetics as they had not done any R & D work on turbos for Buick applications for years. That was one reason why a majority of people on here have been using turbos from PTE and John Craig. I would like to hear a response from Harry or Joe from PTE with their opinion on this.
Jack........aren't the turbos you are selling Turbonetics units? I am not trying to start anything, but most of us have not heard much about your turbos before. Who builds them?

Most every turbo I have seen of Jack's had the Turbonetics balance tag on it and I doubt others making them for him. If I went with a new turbo it would be a Turbonetics. I believe they hold the patten on the ball-bearing setup and are the only one I know that also uses ceramic. Maybe Craig has some ceramic turbos? I also think Turbonetics supplies the other turbo companies with parts and even though they may not do a lot of Buick research they are pretty heavily involved in the racing field. I think most of the big guns like Duttweiller and the Mustang guys use Turbonetics. Isn't Turbonetics the supplier of the 360 degree thrust bearing also? I can't speak on warranties other than I hear you are up against a wall if you send a turbo back to PTE. Also Turbonetics is the only company with compressor maps (last time I checked) and right on-line. I think their Racegates (from what is the consensus here) and turbos are some of the best products out there.

 

[Epitome]

Ball bearing turbos spool better than a same size non ball bearing turbo.....period. Granted, when power braked and launched with boost, there is little to no difference, but from a low rpm punch, the BB turbo will spool quicker. This makes it more streetable in my opinion. There are lots of ways to get a big turbo to spool up, but the trick is to keep it streetable. GNVAIR, You can't possibly argue that ball bearings HINDER this cause can you? Less friction=smoother, easier spool up. Here is my experience and basis for my argument. I won't go into the long build up history of my car, but here are the pertinent facts. I ran a pte-51 with a 3000-3200 stall 16930 non-lock up 9" AC converter and a bunch of other modifications. It ran very well, no complaints. But, in order to run fast I needed lots of boost. I basically swapped in a T66 ball bearing P-trim turbo with no other mods at that time, with the idea that I would be able to keep good spool up, but be able to run less boost (pump gas) and still get good times on the street (where high boost without alcohol or race gas is detonation prone). I have sacrificed ZERO spool up issues with this much larger, ball bearinged turbo. I have also made an 11.72 pass at nearly 116mph with 18 degrees of timing and only 15 lbs of boost. Yes bigger wheels are more efficient at higher boost levels, but they certainly work well at lower boost levels also when the combo is right. There are 3 important things that make a fast buick streetable....the combo, the combo and the combo. Saying that using Turbonetics turbos is a bad idea because they haven't done enough research on our engine specifically is short sighted and doesn't really make sense. The technology available for our cars keeps growing, don't bad mouth new thinking because you don't want to change your own combo (GNVAIR). I get 22 mpg on the highway and have the ability to run mid to low 11s on pump gas with no alcohol or race gas, and have no spool up issues. This is with a "big" turbo.........come by and I'll let you drive it, you'll see.

 

[GNVAIR]

I just posted as a question and not to put anyones products down. I was just curious as to others opinions. I do remember a very heated debate in which Steve Wood was involved on the opinion of ball bearing turbos. I think that debate sprouted from talk about GMHTP magazines project Old Gray in which they installed a ball bearing turbo. Some guys liked them and felt they were worth the money and others despised the idea. I am just curious what the general consensus is now about who markets the best turbos for our cars. I would love to hear some feedback from other vendors such as Ron's Custom Auto, PTE, Cal Hartline, Dan (Grumpy), etc and anyone else that builds fast street driven cars.

 

[Epitome]

I remember that GMHTP article and the discussion. I do know that Formula 1 cars started using ballbearing turbos for their quicker spool up and higher durability characteristics. I would never put down PTE turbos or any non-ball bearing turbos. I never heard anything but good things about John Craig. These turbos all work and work well, there is no disputing that. Ball bearing turbos are also more costly than non ball bearing turbos. BUT, when you want a longer lasting turbo with spooling characteristics that are, at a minimum, better.......ball bearing is the way to go for those that want the end all turbo. Like I said, on a power braked or transbraked launch, the difference is negligible. It's the spool up on the street that I care about. I wouldn't trade my bigger ball bearing turbo for anything now. One you try it personally there is no denying the spool up advantage.

 

[lyonsd]

Well I'm glad I started this thread. I had pretty much decided I wanted to get a -54 turbo. But I had forgotten about those ball bearing turbos.

See, I don't want to get something like a -49 or a -54 and then a little while later say, "Damn, I wish I would have gotten a bigger turbo & converter." I don't have a lot of money so what I get I will be stuck with for a while. Especially since I've got a Mustang that I'm working on, too.

Now these ball bearing turbos sound very interesting. Especially if they spool just as quick as a smaller non-bb turbo. The closer you can get to having your cake and eating it too, the better. And it sounds like these BB turbos will do just that.