Why no handicap-style allowed??

[toofastforyou]

After reading the rules for TSO, TSM, TSE, TSL, TSS, etc...I immediately noticed that all these classes are "heads-up" start classes...WHY ?... I think this favors only the quicker guys, not allowing any handicap in favor of the slower car...
Anyways, I wouldn't be able to run in either TSL or TSO for two reasons: I have a T/A aluminium block and the only classes that allow them are TSL and TSO. Qualifying in these classes begin at 10.20 for TSL and at 9.99 for TSO which are both too fast for what my car runs...and second, I've been drag racing all my life and I always raced in handicap style racing, so I'm totally inexperienced in heads-up racing which I dislike because like I stated above, it tends to favor only the "big guys" , not giving any chance to the "weekend-only-racing-smaller guys"...

Claude .

P.S: I just found out that maybe I could run in TSE...but it's still HEADS-UP racing...

 

[Alky V6]

I think this has been discussed before.

Heads up racing is more fun to watch and attracts more spectators?

Bracket racing is boring and no fun to watch?

Promoters of these events are thick headed about these narrow points of view and are completely satisfied to kick the bracket racer to the side.

Mostly these events are designed to showcase the elitist big boys with deep pockets. If you want to bracket race, go to another of the many events being held all over the country on a regular basis. Oh, and what form of racing is more popular?

Bracket racers have no business being at the big Buick events it seems. I personally think it's because the big boys are scared to match their driving skills to the typical all American bracket racer.

 

[toofastforyou]

I think this has been discussed before.

Heads up racing is more fun to watch and attracts more spectators?

Bracket racing is boring and no fun to watch?

Promoters of these events are thick headed about these narrow points of view and are completely satisfied to kick the bracket racer to the side.

Mostly these events are designed to showcase the elitist big boys with deep pockets. If you want to bracket race, go to another of the many events being held all over the country on a regular basis. Oh, and what form of racing is more popular?

Bracket racers have no business being at the big Buick events it seems. I personally think it's because the big boys are scared to match their driving skills to the typical all American bracket racer.

Donnie, I totally agree with you. You couldn't be more right when you say that these events are meant to showcase the elitist big boys with deep pockets...It would also be embarrassing if one of the "big boys" had to face the humiliation of getting beat by a little guy out of nowhere!...Maybe this is why the rules are made a certain way to discourage the "little boys" from running...and to a certain extent, it works.
I think that on the long run, spectators will lose interest in these events because several of them actually know a friend, or have a relative who races and they want to encourage and cheer for them when they race. These people eventually become get bored from watching the same guys win time after time, knowing that the friend they cheer for doesn't stand a chance in winning anything.
I was even asked this week by an enthusiastic friend if I planned to go to Bowling Green...I replied NO, that I was not interested in going heads-up against those factory-backed "big guys" and that my car (a mid-10 sec. very well built beautiful GN) won't "fit" in their classes unless it's a class in which I will be paired against an 8 sec.car... I will not set up my car just to please their rule-making gurus. I built my car the way I wanted it and also the way I could afford to build it and if they won't accept it the way it is, I'm simply not interested in participating at their events. I'd rather stay in my area, save all the expenses associated with travelling to participate at these events, and bracket race my GN as much as I want and most important, HAVE FUN doing so.

Claude.

 

[casper]

You can a bracket class that fits your car like B1, And I don;t think the factory backs any 20 year old car. If you would have spent your money on the 109block instead of the TA BLOCK maybe Anderson or Dan could have biult you a competive motor just my 02

 

[Alky V6]

B1. What is B1? I have yet to see any formal explanations by any officials of the different bracket classes that may or may not be held at BG or the BPG event. Why do you suppose that is? I have a thread on the BPG website forum asking for rules or definitions of the different bracket classes that may or may not be part of the event and the responses, or lack of, seem to speak for themselves. They're not interested in bracket racing. Period!

People need to understand that sponsors of these events expect a return on investment. Class racing brings in a good return do to the many racers that will be buying product inorder to meet class rules and to become more competitive in the class they decide to target. Bracket racing tends to not bring this same return. Heck. You could just enter a car with absolutely no mods and end up winning and driving the car home. No expense incurred to win except fuel and entry fee. And no monies going to sponsors for special turbos, torque converters, long blocks, ECMs, Alky kits, etc.

And the sheep continue to be herded.

 

[LV GN]

B1. What is B1? I have yet to see any formal explanations by any officials of the different bracket classes that may or may not be held at BG or the BPG event. Why do you suppose that is? I have a thread on the BPG website forum asking for rules or definitions of the different bracket classes that may or may not be part of the event and the responses, or lack of, seem to speak for themselves. They're not interested in bracket racing. Period!

People need to understand that sponsors of these events expect a return on investment. Class racing brings in a good return do to the many racers that will be buying product inorder to meet class rules and to become more competitive in the class they decide to target. Bracket racing tends to not bring this same return. Heck. You could just enter a car with absolutely no mods and end up winning and driving the car home. No expense incurred to win except fuel and entry fee. And no monies going to sponsors for special turbos, torque converters, long blocks, ECMs, Alky kits, etc.

And the sheep continue to be herded.

donnie b1 is bracket 1. there are a few bracket class's in bg. quick 16 is a bracket class that i run with the blue car.then i hot lap into the big gun shoot out which is heads up. bracket racing maybe boring to watch unless you know someone racing in it. my son started bracket racing when he was 16 running a 10.0 gn. he learned to play the game and it is alot of fun to participate in!

 

[tsm3089]

there are 7 brackets at bowling green b1
b2
b3
b4
b5
fwd
q-16 Far more cars are bracket racing than heads up. There are also gamblers races during the week.

 

[Alky V6]

I appreciate the effort to explain the brackets. Why is it not officially posted anywhere? You see TSM, TSO all over the place. Why is it so difficult to officially explain the brackets!!?

TSM3089s post is exactly why the rules for the brackets need to be posted and thoroughly explained. Seven different bracket classes? My home track has only TWO. Electronics and non-electronics. Both with a .5 three amber tree. Crosstalk optional with the electronics class. No ET breaks. Anyone welcome. Seven b classes. Instead of small tid bits of information from this person and that person, what's needed is an official posting somewhere, anywhere that completely explains the brackets, made by someone of authority so that a bracket racer doesn't end up showing at the event and finding out the rules are different than supposed. We've already heard about how rules can change to eliminate the winner during the middle of a run or while the winning contestant is on the return road. Who wants to make an expensive trip to race in that situation?

 

[toofastforyou]

there are 7 brackets at bowling green b1
b2
b3
b4
b5
fwd
q-16 Far more cars are bracket racing than heads up. There are also gamblers races during the week.

I attend the "Buick Performance Weekend" event held at Englishtown, NJ every year on Labor Day weekend and the classes are like explained above. All the "b" classes are handicap racing depending on how fast your car is, but I don't remember if it goes all the way to "b5" though...The last class, "q-16" is heads up for those "big guys". I prefer this way of setting up the classes far more than how they're doing it at BG. If you car can't make the "quick 16", then you run "B1"...if still not fast enough go to "B2", and so on. Everyone can race, fast or not.
Another thing that bothers me is the fact that you have to be a member to participate at BG...Again, WHY?...At Englishtown, everyone is welcomed, no membership needed. Having to become a member makes me feel that I'm not welcomed there unless I give them more money...It's funny how money can change a person's status... I also makes me feel like if they don't really want me there unless I pay the membership fee, and then, they'll do me a favor and let me run...It seems that they're only interested in the "big guys" which I am not. I don't like having to spend to become a member on top of the registration fee, especially when I am the one spending to build my car, race it anf give the show for the track's promoter who's not even thankful for my efforts. after all, if it wasn't for the racers, there wouldn't be an event!

Claude

 

[Alky V6]

Sorry for being a little hot under the collar. The blatant lack of consideration for the simple racer just fires me up. At my home track, if it weren't for the simple test and tuners, and bracket racers, there would be no track.

I had mentioned that I was interested in becoming a member of BPG in the same posting where I was asking for an official explanation of the b classes. I was encouraged to become a member by only one person. Oh, and by the way, the b rules are in the mail. Figuratively speaking. It has got to be 100 times harder to come up with TSO or TSM rules compared to simple bracket rules. And yet, not a single thing anywhere explaining it. What the heck is going on here? If the lack of responce was meant to be a hint targeting me, then hint has been well taken. Thanks anyway.

 

[toofastforyou]

Sorry for being a little hot under the collar. The blatant lack of consideration for the simple racer just fires me up.

Donnie, I did not feel that you're were "hot under the collar"...In fact, I fully agree with everything you said in your three previous posts. In fact, I find it a little insulting that the promoters aren't more thankful to us, the little guy racers for coming to their tracks. They don't even seem to appreciate and keep forgetting that if it was not for US, THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY RACES and soon they'd be out of business!..Instead of being thankful, they have us to pay to race (and give the show for them), then try to rip more money from us by trying to force us to become members... I simply DON'T LIKE THAT! We (the racers) pay to build our cars, pay again to travel to the tracks, pay another time to register to the events...and now they want us to pay more by forcing us to become members??...WTF???

Claude

 

[Alky V6]

And they wonder why their class racing attendance is small. A little business sense for those that are lacking. Where do you think those class racers come from? They just jump out of the wood work? I'm sure most started out as bracket or index racers. Keep dissing the bracket racers and see where your class racing programs go. It will be filled with nothing but a few deep pockets that decided one late day in their life to go racing. But maybe that's the idea. Better ROI. I see a dim future for organized Buick racing.

The bracket racing classes should be groomed, scouted and encouraged to step up to class racing. Instead, they're completely ignored. Good work fellas.

I'm going to be re-designing my home track's website for them, after I get a few other projects out of my hair, and you can bet that there will be a page or more explaining every aspect of every available racing venue available. It seems so natural to me. Wouldn't you expect to get a full menu of available items when you go to a restaurant? Oh, and I would surely have the menu ready before I started inviting people in. Good Grief.

 

[toofastforyou]

I see a dim future for organized Buick racing.

The bracket racing classes should be groomed, scouted and encouraged to step up to class racing. Instead, they're completely ignored. Good work fellas.

X2!

Claude

 

[gsgns4me]

Probably not all the answers you were looking for, but here is a start.

2008 GS Nationals info sheet

 

[LV GN]

it seems like many people are not happy with ruels and other stuff at the gs nationals. to me its 5 days in a row of racing with many cool buick's and getting to hang out with buddy's you dont get to see the rest of the year. pluse its 10 days out of the shop for me!

 

[Alky V6]

It's not that I'm unhappy about rules. It's just that I find it so odd that it's been so hard to find out what the rules are. Doh! It's as if they were some deep dark secret that no one was willing to give up.

Thank you for the link gsgns4me. Now why couldn't someone have posted this link sooner? All someone had to do was post a simple link. All I asked for was some direction to some information, and that was quite awhile ago. Now, less than two weeks before the event, Oh..., here you go. Unbelievable! Well, I'm sure there are some that don't expect me to drop everything to make cross country plans in a week. And guess what. They're right.

If I had buddies there to visit with, it might be a different story. Since I don't, I'd be going to compete. When I compete, I like to be prepared and know what I'm in store for. I'm guessing I'm not the only racer that feels this way. Maybe the organizers of these events need to realize this too. If the event is a friends and family picnic outing, then label it as such. If it's a racing event, then get serious about it. And not two weeks before the event.

 

[Clark Porter]

You make valid points. I suspect that there is more info on the heads up classes simply because the rules are more narrowly defined. In the bracket classes, all that matters is your et, not what it took to get there. There is no cheating in the bracket classes (other than the sandbagger), but I suspect some of the heads up classes might involve creative rules interpretation.

 

[Alky V6]

There are probably some that are saying, 'Com'on, brackets are brackets. Just pick the ET range.'

Bracket racing can have differing rules from track to track. Electronic or non-electronic classes as it relates to delay boxes and throttle stops is the main difference at our track. Three amber tree or .4 or .5 pro tree can be another concern. Some cars can be setup to perform awesome with a three amber tree, but are in real trouble with a pro light. My car is being setup for electronics and a three amber tree. I would be in real trouble if I showed up at a track and found out electronics was not allowed and a pro tree was used in the faster bracket classes. And without any pre-warning to maybe adjust the car, well, forget it.

I suppose after I have the car dialed in with this first configuration, I can start working on other configurations so I can make quick changes at the track, if needed. I'm just not at that point yet.

 

[gsgns4me]

All I asked for was some direction to some information, and that was quite awhile ago.

I haven't found any links for the BPG race in August at National Trail, but you can ask questions or search around on the BPG forums

 

[Alky V6]

I haven't found any links for the BPG race in August at National Trail, but you can ask questions or search around on the BPG forums

Thanks anyway, but I did start a thread on their website forum in the middle of March. Tell me what you think.

Bracket classes information - Buick Performance Group Forum