200-4R hesitates to shift

[foamypirate]

Hey guys, I've got a problem here that has me stumped (I am NOT a transmission guy). I figure this is the best place to ask about a 200-4R.

My brother and I just got done swapping a 200-4R (used Bowtie Level 2) into his 1970 C10 pickup. Everything looked good in the driveway, it goes into gear fine (reverse and drive). No funny noises or anything. The issue is, it's VERY hesitant to shift through the gears. We had the truck wound up to 4.5K and it wouldn't shift unless we let completely off the throttle, and then eased back into it. It almost feels like it's skipping second, but it's hard to tell. The cycle repeats after that, you have to rev it up, and let off the throttle to get it to shift to the next gear. I made sure all the detents inside the trans pan were fully engaged by the column, so I'm pretty sure it's not in two gears at once. Doesn't seem to matter if it's on OD, D, or 2, makes no difference. It almost seems like it's missing second gear, or skipping it. The trans had fluid in it when we bought it, and it was a nice bright red, nothing looked out of the ordinary. We used the BTO TV Made EZ kit, and I tried adjusting the "cam" through it's range to see if that helped. I eventually got it to a point where it would shift with a little less finessing, but then it dumps into OD/lockup way too soon. The torque converter will lock up properly in 4th gear and unlocks when on the brakes, etc.

Does anyone have any ideas what would cause the trans to behave like this?

 

[LOT]

Maybe

With foot off throttle, is the TV cable relaxed or is it tight? If relaxed I suspect a stuck TV valve. This is the small valve in the TV stackup. It should have a small dia. spring in the end of valve. BTW, you can get the large valve (plunger, the one the cam strokes) out without dropping the VB, then stick a small dia. object into bore and see if the small valve strokes and returns to home position. Best of luck.

 

[foamypirate]

The cable has some tension at the linkage, but not incredibly tight. If it helps, I'll throw my pressure gauge on it tonight and get pressures hot/cold at full TV, no TV.

 

[turbo nasty]

Also do you have the proper cam with the right geometry on the carb for the TV to actuate properly? IE..the 2004r cam detent for the holley carb?

Withteh truck running ikn park disconnect the TV cable and pull it to max and let it pop back several times sometimes that will free a sticky TV cable

Here is some basic PSI's to go off of.
If you feel the PSI is a lil low at idle in say....N..... break idle and it should shoot up quickly. I have seen where it could be 70-80 at idle but as soon as you break idle it jumps up. If its doing that then you are OK. If the PSI doent jump up then I would be concerned.

No TV / Full TV No TV / Full TV
P 90 275 70 225
R 230 230 200 200
N 90 275 70 225
4 90 275 70 225
3 90 275 70 225
2 250+ 250+ 225 225
1 250+ 250+ 225 225

Another thing is go through the gears manually and see what happens. Drag Man 1 then shift to 2 and you should feel it go in once in second give it some gas it should not slip.
Does it downshift to first on its own at a stop

 

[foamypirate]

Also do you have the proper cam with the right geometry on the carb for the TV to actuate properly? IE..the 2004r cam detent for the holley carb?

Withteh truck running ikn park disconnect the TV cable and pull it to max and let it pop back several times sometimes that will free a sticky TV cable

Here is some basic PSI's to go off of.
If you feel the PSI is a lil low at idle in say....N..... break idle and it should shoot up quickly. I have seen where it could be 70-80 at idle but as soon as you break idle it jumps up. If its doing that then you are OK. If the PSI doent jump up then I would be concerned.

No TV / Full TV No TV / Full TV
P 90 275 70 225
R 230 230 200 200
N 90 275 70 225
4 90 275 70 225
3 90 275 70 225
2 250+ 250+ 225 225
1 250+ 250+ 225 225

Another thing is go through the gears manually and see what happens. Drag Man 1 then shift to 2 and you should feel it go in once in second give it some gas it should not slip.
Does it downshift to first on its own at a stop

We've got the Bowtie Overdrives TV kit with carb linkage adapter for the specific carb on this truck. I'll try popping the cable a few times to free up the TV valve (assuming it's stuck, but I'll do it anyway). We have tried going through the gears manually, and once the shifter is moved from 1-2, nothing occurs, it just remains in first. It does downshift back to 1st by itself after slowing down/coming to a stop.

I'll check the pressures tonight if I have time. Thanks for the insight guys!

 

[LOT]

checking pressure

If not too hard to disconnect @ carb. Do it this way--check @ idle--disconnect and pull cable max. with and without idle raised to 2000.
I have found that most GOOD builds will have 90 @ min.TV---250 and up @ max. I agree with tybo nasty that you may have a geometry problem. With increased throttle you may be increasing pressure more than necessary. Maybe max. With cable connected and @ WOT are butterflys wide open?

 

[foamypirate]

Finally got some time to check the pressures on the transmission. It is showing 90 at idle, and rises immediately upon throttle application. It shows 200psi at WOT. I do not believe the TV is sticking, as the pressure follows the cable pull. I believe the pressure sat at around 125psi while at cruising throttle. Is this higher than it should be? Oddly enough, the transmission seemed more willing to upshift properly (didn't have to play with the throttle so much) when the gauge was installed, instead of a plug.

It almost seems like it's skipping 2nd gear, but it's really hard to tell. Once you get into 3rd/4th it behaves (mostly) properly, downshifting and upshifting as it should.

 

[HI85WH1]

Call BTO and do NOT drive it any further until you discuss with them your issues.

 

[77 cruiser]

Sounds like you have a band or servo problem & not allowing 2nd. Try pushing in on the servo to see how much travel there is, might have to use a pry bar.