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Anyone know about this pump?

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6SENSE

Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2001
Messages
1,635
I started playing with the alky/h20 thing a while back using a kit from BGC. The pump that came with the kit is a Hella windshield washer pump for a Mercedes. Part # is 8TW 005 496-011. What could the pressure on this thing possibly be? I couldnt find anything on their website. I wouldnt be surprised if it is only 45psi. I am pressurizing the tank with boost which I guess would add a little (I run up to 25-26 psi boost).
Im curious, Im not sure if I am atomizing efectively.
 
Maybe Mercedes is different, but windshield washer pumps usually do not have as much pressure as fuel pumps. I personally would not use a pump that can not put out at least 60psi. Most of the early alky kits used windshield washer pumps and they did not work as well as the current kits
 
What is the fuel pump of choice?
I currently am using a NOS fan spray nozzle with a .020 flare jet with the Hella/Mercedes pump. I ran vacuum hose to the top of my alky/h20 tank so that when I build boost it will pressurize and help to push faster. Ive got the nozzle facing the oncoming air. This is just a few inches after the turbo on the 84-85 setup. Im using hobbs switch to activate and have installed a checkvalve in pressure line after a found that the car was slowly sipping out of the tank without pump running. Also routed pressure line near heat source (upper rad hose) hoping for better movement of fluid.
I have used denatured/h20 and isopropyl/h20. I am trying just h20 now, since I dont have any problems with fueling and KR/detonation, Im more concerned with power gains. Im hoping to create colder/denser air in the intake with the h20 while not affecting the a/f ratio as it seems I do with alky.

I know things have come along way as far as alky/h20 injection in a rather short period of time. Do my components seem to be up to par for what I am trying to accomplish? Or is my setup outdated and I need to start over?
 
The .020 jet may be too small, I am using a .030 jet right now. You need an external type fuel pump, many have used a Ford F150 fuel pump with good results. Make sure you have a check valve between the pump and nozzle to prevent siphoning.
 
Thanks BlackBuick 87.

I found out about the siphoning issues awhile ago and installed a checkvalve. As far as the jet, If I recall correctly Ive also got a .025, .035, and .040 also. I was thinking the smallest one (.020)would be best for misting, you think I went too small though huh?
Any part # or year/engine for that F150 pump? What psi is it supposed to put out? Also does it matter about brand or where to get it?
 
pump

Mercedes pump---18 psi
Ford F- 150 external pump---90 psi Autozone---$80
I believe it is pump # 2000---Brand, I don/t know.

I ran this same setup last year with a lot of success. Using 1 .040 nozzle. The problem with the nitros nozzle and jet is that the jet needs to be the last thing the fluid goes through before it inter the air stream. With what you have, you are going through the jet, then the fluid is entering a larger chamber, thus no mist.

Aquamist nozzles or SMC nozzle is better.
 
Thanks guys.
Got ahold of that F150 pump, Lee. You were right, the part # was E2000, it has 95psi stamped on it. That thing is BIG. Kind of funny that my alky pump is bigger than the one in my gas tank. I also changed my jet to the .025.
Anyway, I ran the car with the new pump and it bogged like crazy. I previously, had been playing around with having the turn on point at around 3psi. I was thinking why let the aircharge heat up first and then try to cool it down? Instead why not have the spray come in early and use it more like having an intercooler? (Am I thinking right?)
Well, after the engine bogged I changed the turn on point to about 13psi. Still bogging, not as bad, but pretty bad. Should I keep putting the turn on point back further? Or is this a nozzle/jet issue? I could try putting the .020 back in. I was hoping that just by putting in the more powerful pump that I would achieve better atomization, I guess not. What does it sound like it is doing? :confused:
 
If you are going to leave the Thrasher 92 in there, I would say you can go as hi as 14-15psi turn on, as long as you are not getting knock. I personally would get a chip with more timing, it will probably help with the bog.
What is the amount of total boost you are running? with that Turbo you should be running at least 20psi. If you werent getting any knock with the .020 jet you can run it, I know mine knocked quite a bit with the .020, but a hot air may be different. Run the smallest one you can with zero KR
 
Actually havent been using the Thrasher lately. Ive had some performance issues with it. Ive been bouncing back and forth from the Lubrandt (20* timing) and the thumb-wheel (18* with #3 setting up to 26* with #7 setting in 2* increments). I guess Im usually set at 20-22*, so I can try the thumb wheel at a higher setting?
As far as boost Ive ran as high as 26psi. I have not had the type of success that I expected with this car so I am going back to the drawing board with my tuning. I may have been going at it wrong. Scanmaster always showed some knock but I wasnt paying it too much attention, felt it was false/at the shifts. I started relying more on the audible sensor (Casper's) which doesnt go off unless moderate to severe KR. Now Ive got TLink and it showed between 2* and 14* retard when I hit it up on the streets yesterday. Only remember the audible going off once during that! (probably at the 14*). I got to thinking, If Im losing that much timing all the time no wonder I havent been able to tune it to perform like I want! So I will be putting the FP up and the boost down and start over, relying on the Tlink readings. I expect to still wind up with 20psi+ boost (I hope).
Watcha think?

P.S. Also should point out that Ive been spraying straight h20 lately, think I mentioned above.
 
I missed where you said you were spraying str8 water. I would set boost around 20-22 for now, and try 70% denatured and 30% water. If it still bogs use 100% denatured and pump lubricant. I would set timing around 22-23 degrees. With a turn on point of 13psi and pump speed around 9-10 (if adjustable) you should see zero knock. If so slowly turn the boost up until SM reads a tickle of knock. Then back it down

Pay attn to the SM readings. Even 3-4º of knock will chip away at head gaskets at high boost. And youre right the puter is pulling timing and youre losing power. If you are getting knock at these fairly moderate settings I would be surprised. I dont think a hotair can run 26psi on alky, most IC'd cars cannot unless the timing is turned down
 
homemade methlab

got methlab painted on my methanol tank where the battery was.
anyway, here is something new.
awhile back i called ak miller and toured his shop with him. totally great guy, and he has lived the life we all want to live.
asked him how he got rid of detonation during all his decades of boosting cars and racing pikes peak, baja,etc.
he said just spray methanol straight at the exhaust valve. brave soul, so i thought i would do the same.
heres what i do.
shurflo pump, two hobbs swithches, two oil furnace injectors in the uppipe, and two holes drilled in the front of the plenum.
inside the plenum are two brass rods going across to the rear of the plenum. the rods are positioned over the top of the intake runners. positioned in the center of the runners i have drilled a .032 hole that sprays meth right at the intake valve, which i figured would atomize immediately. dont know if it does, but i was just experimenting (im doing all this on my 87 t before i so it to my 87 gn s2 motor). so each runner gets .032 liquid meth.
i turn on the two nozzles at about 8 psi, and the rods at about 17. pump gas and 23psi, with no tr. i quess it works.
stock motor with atr 40 chip, 40 lb lucas,homeade dual ic, v2 compressor with .81 p-trim and 3" downpipe into dual 2 1/4 muffs.
100k on motor. passes emissions withoujt the cat. gets 23mpg.
still playing with it, seems to be too much meth. had to gap to .035 to cure the missing and bogging.
so far, g-tech pro says 320 hp before it run out of road in middle of second gear.
there u go, just thought i would entertain u with something different. this seems to be pretty straightforward and foolproof.
years ago iwanted to inject liquid propane and never did. ak miller actually was working on system that would inject liquid propane into each runner under boost. I'll probably do that myself with the street s2 motor just because it would be a whole lot safer on the street than methanol under the hood.
have fun. I am.
 
Steve Y is spraying tons of methanol also, but I dont want to mess with the stuff. There is a big difference between spraying meth on a pikes peak racer you rebuild once a month vs. spraying it on a daily driver or a car you are going to keep a long time.
Sounds like you have a pretty nice setup there though
 
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