ARP bolts or not?

[Jan Larsson]

So got the engine out and oilpan off. Previous owner told me there's ARP bolts in there (crankshaft and conrods) not sure if they are or not can anyone identify from the pictures attached?

Got ARP head bolts and they have ARP on them but these do not so question is are they ARP or stock bolts?

 

[chrisgarrett]

I think it's safe to assume that those are not ARP bolts. It is especially clear in the second picture, that you have SpS bolts.

http://www.spstech.com/aero/products/bolts.html

 

[Jan Larsson]

Are SPS bolts ok or should I replace them with ARP?

 

[chrisgarrett]

I was told that they are reusable, but I didn't want to take any chances with something so important, so I went with ARP. You can get them from Mike at www.Fullthrottlespeed.com

 

[Lunkan]

Better safe than sorry, and it´s such a small cost in the end.

 

[Razor]

If you change bolts.. you need to resize connecting rods. If you change main cap bolts.. you need to line-hone.

I reused my original bolts. You can tell when you tq the bolts.. each should move the same amount.

No biggie.. save your money for something else.


Unless you plan to really race the engine hard.. then you'll need more than bolts anyways.

10.57@132.7 on junky bolts

 

[Lunkan]

With that kind of attitude I understand why it look like it does. Guess that former owner had the same thought too.

Do a correct job now, and You KNOW that it can´t be an issue later.

 

[Razor]

What is wrong with OEM bolts?

And how did the "bolts" contribute to the current issue?

Guess GM didnt know how to do a correct job But the previous owners choice of machine shop led to the current issue.. not the bolts :redface:

 

[Lunkan]

Ofcourse much is in the shop, but why reuse stock bolts when rebuilding/refreshing an engine? If it got aftermarket pistons and cam, why put in old bolts and hope it will hold it together? OEM bolts are TTY and not supposed to be reused. Sure, buy a new set of oem bolts if You like to save a couple of dimes or build a stronger bottom.

From what I´ve seen, the us shops like to take shortcuts. I don´t like to do that with engines that I put together, especially when it´s not going in my own car.

 

[Jan Larsson]

Julio, not sure I follow you on this one "If you change bolts.. you need to resize connecting rods" ?

I plan to go the ARP bolts/studs route and also add the billet center main caps and have the whole thing line-honed ... just need to find a good machine shop in this country I can trust do a good job.

What specs to I need to give to the machine shop to make sure they this properly? Crank might just need polishing but what about the line-honing of the crank caps and also conrods etc?

 

[Razor]

The only bolts that are TTYL are head bolts. Those should not be re-used. Everything else.. can be re-used multiple times.. how else could you assemble and disassemble.. then reassemble while performing checks. Perfect example.. plastiguage for rod clearance.. you need to TQ down cap to obtain your clearanance.. then disassemble to see what your clearance was. If it was TTYL.. then once tightened down and stretched.. it would be over. Like in the case of a Factory head bolt.

Jan, once you change bolts.. you have changed clamping force and alignment... is what it is. That is why machine work is needed when bolts are replaced in areas of critical clearance like rods and mains.

If your rods need resizing after checks are performed.. then change the bolts before resizing.

 

[Grumpy]

Jan are you goin to race this eng ???? my wife's original TTA ran high 11s in street trim with a stock motor .. pos only had a 110k on it when she sold it personally I see a project $$$$ pit growing

 

[Lunkan]

Everybody on this msg board told me that I would never ever have my car running again if I started to build it instead of just replace the head gaskets. I replaced everything in the engine (except for the rods and crank) and it was back on the streets after the winter, along with new transmission and welded cage.

I then broke the rear in my first launch, bought a new rear and sold the car, and are now (along with The Swede) building a stage2 powered 25.1E racechassi.

Out of the 6 engines I´ve taken apart, everyone have had the same problem with the bottom which is pinching rods and worn bearings. Those have not been beaten hard. One engine was newly rebuilt in The US with lots of fancy stuff, but wasn´t correctly machined and assembled.

So, if someone wants to do it right, don´t go down on him or pick on him. I´ve seen that alot around here, and that kind of piss me off.

That was my last comments on this part of the board.

 

[Grumpy]

So, if someone wants to do it right, don´t go down on him or pick on him.

Jan just do a stage 2 and get it over with AGAIN what are you goin to do with the car ??? goin to race it all the time and PUSH it ????

 

[Razor]

Out of the 6 engines I´ve taken apart, everyone have had the same problem with the bottom which is pinching rods and worn bearings. Those have not been beaten hard. One engine was newly rebuilt in The US with lots of fancy stuff, but wasn´t correctly machined and assembled.

So, if someone wants to do it right, don´t go down on him or pick on him. I´ve seen that alot around here, and that kind of piss me off.

That was my last comments on this part of the board.

If the machine work was inproper.. then you will have issues. There are thousands of machine shops here in the states.. how many can actually be trusted to do the work properly on a Buick.. FEW. This message board has lots of threads/posts bearing machine shop issues.. and another easy one.. transmission

Bolts are not to blame. The problem with replacing bolts IS MACHINE WORK WILL BE REQUIRED.. and having questionable experience in the case of Jan.. is why I suggest leaving that area alone. UNLESS data supports changing them.

Engine in my car was built by myself, and I am lucky to have a machine shop I can trust.. MOST of the time

If bolts are stretched.. change them. They only get this way from over torque. :redface:

 

[Jan Larsson]

Well I wont be racing the car like some of you guys BUT I will get it done properly with no shortcuts, finding a good machine shop should not be a problem in this country but you never know of course. I just need to gather as much info/recommendations as possible so I can tell them exactly what I like to have done and with what parts. Will only use a shop I get recommended to use by people I trust know what they are doing.

Appreciate as much comments / suggestions as possible from all you guys that way I get all the ins and outs before hand. I'm in no rush to get this done rather key for me is to get it done properly so I can enjoy the car for years to come without any suprises. I'm happy to spend the money as long as the result is top notch.

 

[Grumpy]

Me???? I'd keep it simple .. I would take everything apart and check it ..re ring and re bearin it (smack it on it's ass) and put it back together .. steel center caps can really open up a can of worms if they screw it up .. I don't understand why you would need them but thats my thoughts ...KISS keep it simple & stupid

 

[Razor]

Me???? I'd keep it simple .. I would take everything apart and check it ..re ring and re bearin it (smack it on it's ass) and put it back together .. steel center caps can really open up a can of worms if they screw it up .. I don't understand why you would need them but thats my thoughts ...KISS keep it simple & stupid

+1 :wink: