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Carfax Issue/possible stolen 86 GN

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hrd2k

New Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
27
Greetings all,

I am new to this forum and I just wanted to let everyone know how I got ripped off on eBay with the purchase of an 86 GN. The guy I won the car from is located in Oakland Gardens, NY and his name is Sean Hancock. He claims that he purchased the vehicle from a friend of his that was moving to FL. The title was not in his name. Anyway, he totally misrepresented the vehicle on eBay and he sent me a clean Carfax report via email on this vehicle saying it was never in a major accident and had a clean title. I was so excited to get the GN, I made some very stupid mistakes and was too blind to see things that should have been red flags. He wanted me to send him a cashier's check for the purchase of the vehicle instead of going through paypal because he claimed he didn't want to pay the fees. I contacted eBay VPP (Vehicle Protection Program) and they said that I was still covered if I sent him a bank check so I sent him the check. He sent me the title and I went to DMV to get a 30-day inspection tag. I drove to NY in a rental to pick the vehicle up. I noticed that it had major electrical problems and that the suspension was messed up. The car had a dead spot in the steering and pulled really hard to the right. Upon taking it to a local auto shop for the Maryland state inspection, I realized just how bad I was ripped off. It failed in almost every area of the inspection. They told me "it looks like this vehicle was wrapped around a telephone pole and that someone replaced the frame, and the new frame is not the correct frame for the vehicle". The frame is lopsided causing one of the rear wheels to rub against the body of the car. There is major rust damage in critical areas under the vehicle. I was also told that the front wheels could fall off at any time and that the vehicle was in "Very poor condition". There are more things wrong with this vehicle than there were right. The car was apparently repaired in someone's home garage because it looks like they bought cans of spraypaint and primer to pain the car on their own. They did this so that it wouldn't show up on Carfax. Carfax only gets what the DMV or insurance company reports to them. I told Sean that I wanted my money back and he told me there was nothing he could do and that I would have to sue him. Beware of buying vehicles online (e.g. eBay, auto-trader, etc.). I paid $6,100.00 for a car that is practically worthless because it has the wrong frame. Now I have to go through the eBay VPP to try and recover my money and if I can't get the money from them, I will have to sue Sean in small-claims court which means I will loose $1,100. The following is the eBay item number and the VIN for the vehicle. I am going to have the MD state police check this car out.

eBay item # 4550749999

VIN: 1G4GK4775GP434978

If anyone has some better ideas as to how I could recover my money, please let me know. I can also send pictures of the underneath of the vehicle via email upon request to get input on that. I feel so stupid for letting myself get ripped off like this, but hopefully my lesson will also prevent this from happening to someone else. I will keep everyone updated on what is happening with this issue and I will also post a full laundry list of exactly what is wrong with the vehicle when I get home from work this evening. I would really apprecaite if someone could tell me what they think the car is worth after I post the laundry list of what is wrong with the vehicle. I don't think I will even be able to sell this vehicle in it's current condition and I don't even know if it is a true GN. I would like to thank everyone on this forum in advance for their help. This whole thing has made me sick.
 
wow that sucks. Sorry to hear that. I thought small claims was only 100 bucks to submit a case? Anyways I would go after him. Hopefully eBay helps you out. eBay loves to protect the seller and don't care about the bidder. I've been screwed a few times on eBay before. Just don't let it get old. Keep on it and hopefully you come out ok in the end. I bought my car off eBay from upstate NY as well. 90% of the cars up that way are rust cans! My engine went shortly after but it was just because of 90 some thousand beating miles on it being all stock. The seller did give me 1000 to make me go away but keep on it and hopefully you come out.
 
UPDATE

Well, it looks like it doesn't even have a GN frame on it. The auto shop can't find any serial/vin on the frame and they think it is a frame for a skylark or other buick vehicle. The frame doesn't match up with the body and is off by about 2 inches. It is looking more and more like this vehicle came from a chop shop. Does anyone know where I can look to find other VIN numbers? I plan to contact the police tomorrow to get them to look it over. Thanks.
 
Check the door panels for build sheet. Pop the door panels off and should be taped there. Under the rear seat and behind the rear seat cushion is another spot. I know there is other places you may find a vin I'm sure people will chime in but check those places for a build sheet as it will have the vin on it. You could also call your local police department and talk to the people in stolen cars and they should be able to tell you other places to look. Sounds like this guy got it from someone who replated it and said I bet I can sell that thing on eBay. Send his a$$ to jail!
 
Update #2

Called police and the VIN comes back clean. Doesn't mean the vehicle wasn't replated though. This is the guy to stay away from:

Sean Hancock (aka theif)
61-51 224th st
Bayside, NY 11364

Phone: 516-551-5106

If you would like to see pictures of this peice of garbage, please email me and I will be glad to send them to you.
 
Does the A/C box under the hood say Turbo on it? If so, it's a turbo car. Not many folks would know to change that out.

This probably won't help with the state of utter dissatisfaction you are in but:

a. 1986 GNs are pretty darn rare.
b. It looks like you have a complete interior, GTA wheels and drivetrain so at least 2/3 your purchase price is secure. You're not out $6100.
c. It looks like the GTA wheels are on the wrong axles. If you swap them front to rear, they may not rub. They might need a spacer in the front though.
d. Try to post some pics underneath. I cannot imagine a frame from anything but a G-body coming that close to fitting, considering the wheels are reasonably in the wheel openings. The right front does look rearward a bit. I have never heard of differences in a GN frame other than maybe body bushings, steering box (not frame but you understand) and trans crossmember.
e. If all else fails, here's a donor car with everything you need to get back to square one from a longtime member, not terribly far away: http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157930

I know you are upset and rightfully so. Do what you must but consider the odds of success. Good luck.
 
It's a rough car no doubt. It's on the correct frame; I say that since the trans crossmember has the proper mounts and the rear end looks to be correct as best I can see. Most rearends are not centered properly, neither is mine. The front suspension looks proper also. The steering wheel emblem is a tri-shield on GNs, not a T so it's proper. The gas tank has been patched as you say. The trunk liner is just a thin piece of black felt from the factory. That's not a blank sticker in the door, it's faded (so is mine). The airbox is unexplainable but appears correct. Most every GN has wires hanging under the dash; we can't leave them alone. You'd freak under mine, lol.

However I agree it has extensive rust issues. Body mounts get replaced all the time; not a clear indicator of a problem. I doubt the quarters are nice under all that bondo. It doesn't look like a spray can job but it's poor. Looks like you have your work cut out for you but I believe you have a real GN. How does it run?

If you need help or advice other than legal, feel free to write.
 
It runs rough and burns some oil as well. It needs motor and tranny mounts. It needs major suspension work as well. I was told the front wheels are ready to fall off. Ball-joints, tie-rod ends, bushings etc. What would you do with a car in this kind of condition? Do you think it was worth 6k? Thanks for your input.
 
Hard to say if it was worth it. If you can do bodywork, then yes. I would first seek the help of someone with some GN mechanical experience. The burning oil could be turbo seals only (usually an easy fix). The rough running could be a tune-up issue (again, an easy process). I would verify the mechanical condition first by doing the following steps:

Compression test
Leak-down test
Spring cleaning ( http://www.gnttype.org/maint/basics.html )
Ensure the computer chip matches the injectors
Ensure alternator and battery are up to par
FYI, it has an aftermarket mass air sensor on it which may be bad and should be verified with a known good one

Anderson Performance in Maryland would be to whom I'd take it. You will spend some money but it's better than biting off more than you can chew. ( http://www.anderson-performance.com ) I had to take my GN to someone when I first bought it until I learned what to do.

After you are sure the engine is sound, then suspension, fuel system, and cosmetics last. Moog or Standard brand front end parts are reasonably priced and work great. You can do this with basic hand tools. Available at almost any parts store. Fuel pumps are easily replaced and available widely on this board. Everyone will steer you to overkill but that's what we do.
 
I am in Essex. I had it towed to Miller Motors Buick yesterday for an estimate on the body/frame work and mechanical. I probably won't have it repaired there, but I am doing that for the purpose of collecting from the insurance company. I will surely give you a call to find out what can be done with it. I bought it thinking I was only gonna have to put about 5 - 7k of work to get it in "close to show" condition. From what I am being told, it looks like this would have to be a frame-off restoration job. The most important thing is to find out if I have the correct frame on it. The auto shop said I do not have the correct frame, but then someone else told me that it was. If I don' t have the correct frame, then I am looking at a whole other set of issues.

On a side note, is a frame-off restoration something your shop would do? If so, what is a ball-park figure on what it would cost to go through with something like that? Thanks.

Ken
 
Ken, actually we are only a couple mins from Essesx, Miller Motors Buick has sent cars (GN's and TTypes) to us to repair in the past. We dont do total restoration jobs but that may not be what you need anyway.....
 
Great. I see it looks like you are in Dundalk. I will surely give you a call once I get everything sorted out. Thanks.

Ken
 
update

I took the vehicle to Anderson Performance Automotive. They are going to run up an estimate for me. I will post another update when I have more information.
 
Well, looks like your the proud owner of beat to death rusty GN. I'd do everything possible to send it back and get your money back. It's going to take twice what you paid just to make it barely presentable. You were ripped off. Too bad you didn't check the cars available on this site. Some good deals and nice cars get sold here.
Easy fixes-get some stock rims, unbolt the radiator hold down and sand blast it and paint it, get a smaller air filter.

That plastic cover is to the heater core. Who ever replaced the core (only reason to open the box) didn't know where all the screws were and that it sealed with seam sealer.
The trans mount is correct and they cost about $9 to replace.
Looks like there is 200 lbs of bondo on her so I don't think I'd even attempt to go at that unless you like replacing body panels.
Good luck.
 
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