is roller cam / rockers worth it???
- Thread starter 5ltretr
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Due to the new formulation of oil out there, the flat tappets would not last. The oil manufacturers took out zinc, which protects the metals.
If you must run a flat tappet, you should run motorcycle oil or HD diesel truck which still have addatives. Look how many auto makers still use flat tappets, none, they all use roller everything. If you must use a flat tappet, I would put a bottle of GM EOS at everyoil change.
IMHO one should use a roller for reliability.
Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com
If you must run a flat tappet, you should run motorcycle oil or HD diesel truck which still have addatives. Look how many auto makers still use flat tappets, none, they all use roller everything. If you must use a flat tappet, I would put a bottle of GM EOS at everyoil change.
IMHO one should use a roller for reliability.
Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com
Billy,
I've never heard that explanation before. If that's true, why do the aftermarket manufacturer's still make flat tappet cams? Surely they're not making a product that they KNOW will fail when used "as designed".
I'm fast approaching the time when I'll have to decide on what to do cam-wise. Is there an affordable and reliable alternative to a full billet roller?
I've never heard that explanation before. If that's true, why do the aftermarket manufacturer's still make flat tappet cams? Surely they're not making a product that they KNOW will fail when used "as designed".
I'm fast approaching the time when I'll have to decide on what to do cam-wise. Is there an affordable and reliable alternative to a full billet roller?
He's got some good points hidden in there, but probably not the right reasons. The reason why manufactures have gone roller is because the cost of roller cams cores have come down to the point where they are as economical to make as flat tappets and while the lifters are more, the factory also uses those spiders and dogbones instead of the link bars which makes the lifters only marginally more expensive.
The whole move to a roller in the first place is because of cam lobe wear and frictional losses, which the roller reduces by decreasing the number of warentee concerns and increasing engine effeciency. Something all the OEM's love since when the emissions get harder, their existing designs still work. They can advertise more power due to the more radical profiles that a roller can handle without sacrificing valve overlap that makes emissions and rough idling vehicles. Look at the LT4, its got a decent cam in it but still meet emmisions and idles pretty smoothly for that much power.
Roller rockers have only been used on a very few production engines, the LT4 is currently the only engine that comes mind and I think the Ford 5.0 Cobra motor had them aswell. I think there is very little to be gained in the use of roller rockers arms as far as power or durability is concerned especially since the roller rocker arms are generally aluminum which has a finite fatique life and might fail. However they are easier to adjust, especially on shaft mounted rockers like ours, Mopars and the rest of the BOPC's. I think this is the big reason you see the two paired up is that with the different lifters, generally redone heads, and block; the pushrod length is altered and it is easier to get fairly close pushrods and then mess with the adjusters for preload rather than ordering the absolutely correct length pushrods. Also a consideration for the Buick is that as far as I know, the only way to go higher ratio than the stock 1.55 (on any of the Buick motors as I had 1.6:1's on my 455) is to go roller.
Just my thoughts,
The whole move to a roller in the first place is because of cam lobe wear and frictional losses, which the roller reduces by decreasing the number of warentee concerns and increasing engine effeciency. Something all the OEM's love since when the emissions get harder, their existing designs still work. They can advertise more power due to the more radical profiles that a roller can handle without sacrificing valve overlap that makes emissions and rough idling vehicles. Look at the LT4, its got a decent cam in it but still meet emmisions and idles pretty smoothly for that much power.
Roller rockers have only been used on a very few production engines, the LT4 is currently the only engine that comes mind and I think the Ford 5.0 Cobra motor had them aswell. I think there is very little to be gained in the use of roller rockers arms as far as power or durability is concerned especially since the roller rocker arms are generally aluminum which has a finite fatique life and might fail. However they are easier to adjust, especially on shaft mounted rockers like ours, Mopars and the rest of the BOPC's. I think this is the big reason you see the two paired up is that with the different lifters, generally redone heads, and block; the pushrod length is altered and it is easier to get fairly close pushrods and then mess with the adjusters for preload rather than ordering the absolutely correct length pushrods. Also a consideration for the Buick is that as far as I know, the only way to go higher ratio than the stock 1.55 (on any of the Buick motors as I had 1.6:1's on my 455) is to go roller.
Just my thoughts,
Good answer, Sleeper. Some years ago, when I was on the GnTTYpe mailing list, there was a guy from San Antonio who discussed the advantage of roller rockers. With the higher ration (1.65) you can get more lift, and more "effective" duration, even with a stock cam. And you get it without having to change the lobe profile, to a more radical one which can compromise durability. Anyway, that was his theory, and it sounded good to me. Todd King, maybe? Haven't heard from him in a few years....
worth it
For me because i am changing a lot of stuff at one time and something probably isn't going to work right the first time i try to start it....at least i won't have to worry about it not starting the first time and wiping a cam lobe..Going roller is very exspensive...i bought top of the line stuff..billet cam,titanium retainers, roller rockers,etc etc..very close to 1500 smacks....you get what you pay for
....................................................................Bob
For me because i am changing a lot of stuff at one time and something probably isn't going to work right the first time i try to start it....at least i won't have to worry about it not starting the first time and wiping a cam lobe..Going roller is very exspensive...i bought top of the line stuff..billet cam,titanium retainers, roller rockers,etc etc..very close to 1500 smacks....you get what you pay for
....................................................................Bob
