New GN owner... upgrade advice needed!

[murphster]

Hi all. Was wondering if I could get some advice on upgrades I'm considering.

I have an 87 GN that I recently purchased from my father. Its currently in South Carolina and I want to order some parts for it before I make a trip down for some testing and tuning. I don't plan on bringing to Jersey until the end of summer or so.

The car recently had turbo problems and was replaced with a rebuilt stock one. Due to the money spent on this by my father I problably won't replace the turbo for a while.

When my dad bought the car it already had some basic upgrades done. The fuel pump was replaced and hot-wired (not sure which make), blue tops, valve cover breather, K&N cone filter, fuel pressure gauge (I assume adjustable), boost and temp gauges on the pillar, engine tie down, gas shocks, valve springs replaced. I'm sure there are some other minor upgrades but nothing major.

The car had a thrasher (I think) chip with the anti-theft but the chip went bad last year and the stock chip was put back in.

When the turbo went bad oil leaked everywhere and the intercooler was flushed out many times. It was thought that maybe the catalytic convertor could be plugged but it was soon obvious that it was gutted. Besides that the exhaust is stock.

Last year the car was driven to a drag strip about an hour away (still had thrasher chip). It has BFG TA's on it and it was on 91 octane pump gas. It was still pretty hot when it came time to drag and ran a 13.9 at 93 mph leaving with no boost and a 2.04 60'. It was left in overdrive so that didn't help. I figure if the car was cooled off with some good tires it could have run low 13's.

My dad had the car painted last year and a seat re-upholstered so everything looks great inside and out. I also bought some spacers for the car to put on my dad's MT ET Drags. Here's a link to the pics. Tell me what you think.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/murphysa/


Here's a list of the upgrades I'll probably order in the next week or so:

ATR 3" dual exhaust
TH Downpipe
Chrome turbo shield (the current one looks awful)
air bags
pinion snubber
2 new somewhat sticky tires (the BFG's TA's have had it)
Turbolink (already have the laptop waiting)
New chip (recommendations?)
Better gas (either Xylene or some race gas)

I figure with this package I should be able to have some fun and get into the high 12's with the slicks on it. Next round of upgrades will be a year or so away and I will look into a new turbo, intercooler, convertor, heads, etc.

Any advice on some other basic upgrades without touching the engine? I'm going to try and have all this stuff ready before I go down to my dad's for some testing in a month.

Thanks.

 

[blackbuick87]

1st thing you get has to be a new chip. The stock chip is for 28# injectors and the fueling will be all jacked up with the stock chip

 

[blackbuick87]

Since the car has some nice things done already the only thing you should buy is the chip and a scan tool, either turbo link or a Scan Master

Drive the car and get used to it before you throw money at it. Take it to the track and get a baseline performance level, and then build from that. Otherwise you will end up another guy with a lot of parts going slow

 

[BADINBLACK6]

I would confirm what fuel pump is in there and if it is a stock replacement I would upgrade stock pump won't be able to keep up with mods. Get a chip for the bluetops(36lbers) don't use stock chip with them. If you want to run high boost 20-23 lbs on the street get alky injection you won't regret it and it is very easy to install smcenterprises.com. Do the spring cleaning on gnttype.org. There are alot of good chips out there do a search on this board but if you want to get a chip that is good and cheap get a Thrasher for now so you can drive the car look up scott231 on this board and he can get you one.HTH

 

[blackbuick87]

Oh yeah, for the chip just start out with another Thrasher, they work great with the stock turbo. Contact Scott Simpson for one.
He is at Scott231@gnttype.org

 

[murphster]

Thanks for the quick replies so far.

I want the ATR exhaust because the exhaust is due to be replaced and I want to get a deeper sound. Combined with a THDP I should be setup for down the road. Also, a SS THDP with a new turbo shield should spice up the engine bay, as it looks pretty poor right now.

Seems like the early prognosis is that I need a new chip 1st. I really didn't know that was hurting the performance that much. Thanks.

I wasn't sure if Alchy would help my setup much with stock turbo, intercooler, convertor. I know the kits aren't that much so if anyone can clarify how much alchy helps a stock setup that would help me. I then assume I could then get a chip knowing I'll have alcohol injection or would I still use a Thrasher or similar?

 

[blackbuick87]

Once you get and alky setup you will look like this

My car has a stock turbo/IC/blue tops/Thrasher chips like yours and will run 12's on pump gas and alky. You will like it a lot. Check out the Alcohol Injection forum for more info

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Alky is great for the street and for a fairly stock setup like yours. The difference between 93 octane and 15 lbs of boost vs 93 octane, higher timing chip (100 chip), and 22 lbs of boost is like the difference between 6 cyl camaro and a ls1 z28. It is absolutely amazing. I've had my kit for well over 3 years, and steve is a good guy to deal with. www.smcenterprises.com

you wont regret it at all. Best mod you can do for a street car.

 

[V6POWER]

I wouldn't spend the money on a 3" ATR dual exhaust. (Do they even make a 3" dual?) Just do a 'search' for exhausts and you will find better alternatives, such as Hooker 2.5". JMO.

 

[NoNos38]

I think ATR makes great Exhaust, If you have the Cash..

I know Im going to get alot of (****) for saying this, But an ATR race chip with the stock turbo, 20-21 PSI will Prob, give you the best times.. I know you old times are out there like , but for the max psi you can run efficiently threw the stocker, the extra timming will really shine.. This is the way I used to run my stocker with 36's cranking out mid 12's 109-112 at 21 PSI..

Matt

 

[murphster]

Just noticed this.... My dad's house in SC is only about 40 min from the ATR shop. Heck, he can drive there and pick up a chip and new exhaust for me and save some shipping!

I'll look into Alky and look at the different chips. I'm leaning towards getting both a 93 and a 100 chip so I can take one step at a time and have some options.

If I can get a good supply of race gas locally I have no problem using it full time (money no issue). Are there any problems with using race gas full time? I've read that O2 sensors will go quicker on race gas. Once a year? Are they easy to find and replace? I expect to maybe put 5000 miles or less a year on the car.

Thanks again for all the advice.

 

[striker_29]

Yes they make an Atr 3" dual exhaust, thats what I run with pitbull mufflers. A bit pricey, but you cant beat it for sound, performance, and durability. Race gas will kill an O2 sensor after a few trips down the track, your not talking days or weeks there. The alternative is a heated O2, which the longevity is debatable as well, but certainly better. Your other option is alky for the street(wont hurt your O2) and C16 for the track. Thats my preffered method

 

[NoNos38]

Originally posted by murphster
Just noticed this.... My dad's house in SC is only about 40 min from the ATR shop. Heck, he can drive there and pick up a chip and new exhaust for me and save some shipping!

I'll look into Alky and look at the different chips. I'm leaning towards getting both a 93 and a 100 chip so I can take one step at a time and have some options.

If I can get a good supply of race gas locally I have no problem using it full time (money no issue). Are there any problems with using race gas full time? I've read that O2 sensors will go quicker on race gas. Once a year? Are they easy to find and replace? I expect to maybe put 5000 miles or less a year on the car.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Let me know if you want to try out an ATR chip.. I have one for 36's if you want it.. You cover the shipping, and its yours..

Matt

P.S. just think of it as your (New Guy) Welcome...

 

[blackbuick87]

If the car has a cat racegas will destroy it in short order. AC Delco O2's on my car can handle the equivalent of about 20-30 gallons of 110 before they start to puke.

A few lucky people can get 100 unleaded, I would run that if possible, otherwise a 93octane/xylene mix comes out to about 100 octane

 

[murphster]

update

Just an update on the car....

ATR 3" dual exhaust and THDP on the way! I also ordered a new stock crosspipe as the old one had already been welded after a big blowout and was probably weak.

Turbolink ordered and installed on the laptop! I have two laptops and have it running on the older one, a P90 with 16 mb ram. Upgrading it to 32 mb ram and will see how it holds up. I don't want to use the newer laptop as it is an expensive one for work, but it will be the backup. Any news on anyone selling laptop stands for our cars? I did a search and saw there were some prototypes last year (Cottons?).

Turns out I am only the third owner of the GN (not including my dad). I talked to the previous owner who did all the mods and bought it straight from the original owner. The car was bought in SC and has probably never been out of the state.

The previous owner verified a few of the mods he had done to the car (I wasn't sure before). The fuel pump is a Walboro 340 hot wired. 160 degree thermostat. TC had never been locked up and the transmission and convertor is still all stock. The fuel pressure regulator is indeed adjustable. The engine had never been touched internally. This is pretty much what I thought but its nice to know for sure.

Also, the chip in the car currently is a Red Armstrong 93. This is not verified 100% yet, but is likely. From what I've read the fuel should be at 43 and the boost at 17 psi for this chip. I think the timing is 20 ? Anyway, should be a good chip to start out with and be fairly safe with the low timing.

Everything should be set for some tuning in about 3 weeks when I go down to SC. I'm trying to find some 100 unleaded gas stations locally for the car. A drag strip is about 25 min away though. If its too much of a pain to drive there then I will try a xylene mixture. Next step will then be to get a 100 octane chip and crank up the boost, but not for this time around. I will spend time just making sure everything is in tune and probably clean up the engine bay and take some pics and movies for posting.

Thanks for all the help and advice.

 

[Evans Ward]

pinion snubber?

Would the pinion snubber (even as cheap as it is) be a worthwhile investment with the air bags? Probably not. Might not even come close to even hitting it with the air bags at any PSI figures. Do a search on pinion snubber and read the reviews. Better yet, ask Chuck Leeper if he recommends them!

 

[murphster]

snubber

I guess I'm glad I didn't buy a snubber after all.

I would consider air bags, but as this will be primarily a street car, I don't want to hurt the street manners at all and make the car more prone to oversteer. Same goes with removing the front sway bar, etc.

Unless the air bags really make a difference hooking up on the street, then the pros may outweigh the cons. Or are airbags mainly for the strip?

 

[Evans Ward]

Murphster,

I have 2 air bags and my car isn't a strip car but a driver (nice one at that if I say so myself!) It will help traction issues esp if you don't have G80 posi. I'm in that peg leg boat myself. My springs were starting to sag alittle and I went to the bags and it really helped. I generally ride with 7-10 PSI in the bags. You can also do a search and find a really trick way of mounting the valves behind the tag bracket which will rest on it. Really nice as it replaces those black rubber bumper stops. Good luck with the car. Your first mod needs to be to hook a scantool up and get some baseline parameter reading before you do anything else. And go to GNTTYPE.org and read, read, read.

 

[Turboboy]

About the alkly system what type of alcohol does it use and how much is it to buy the alcohol? thanks

 

[Evans Ward]

alky ?

SMC kit- industry standard! Denatured alcohol- bought bulk at Ace Hardware in 5 gal can (Crown Brand) at $30.00 total. I run 1-2 ozs Marvel Mystery Oil for a pump lubricant per alky tank filled. Best mod for a TR street car IMHO!!