old valvesprings

[turbo buicks]

besides crappy performance is there any other downsides to running stock valvesprings (115K+) on my car at the track. i dont have money for new ones yet but i want to go to the track when i get the 50#'ers in really bad. should i not do this till i get new springs or should i be OK and my times be the only thing suffereing for it?

 

[Tom87GN]

You'll be fine, don't worry about it. How do you know that your springs are bad anyhow? You never know! If your car gains 20 mph from the 1/8th to the 1/4 then they are fine!

 

[turbo buicks]

i just figured they were bad b/c as far as i know they are stock and we all know what people say about the stock valve springs

 

[salvageV6]

Should be under $100 total for the job and that's if you buy Kirbans spring removal tool as well.

4 hour job the first time.

Why not wait and do it.

"Stockers are dead Jim..."

 

[turbo buicks]

im still debating. i really want to go to the track but i dont want to bring back any 14 sec. slips. i will have my friend John help me w/the valve springs he said and hes done his so it shouldnt be that long. im throwing in new intake valve seal thingies while im at it. John really recommended the Kirbans tool for getting to the back springs. BTW, what are the stock spring cups you told me to remove in my other post? what do they do and why do i remove them?

 

[87LtdT]

It's debatable what the stock spring cups were intended to do...some say they act as a spring damper, some say they are an oil shield, some say they are a spring locator device, etc. I don't know what their design intent was, but I know for sure they are about .030" thick and if you reuse them they will act as a shim and increase the spring force.

If you use CC980 springs, for example, which are advertised at 307 lb/in then using the .030" thick cup will cause an extra 9.21 pounds of spring load (307 times .030). Which is fine if that is what you want...but if you are running around 11.5 or slower then it is my opinion that CC980 springs without the stock cup would be preferred...that's what I run too.

12 springs cost about $40, a spring compressor from Jack Cotten costs another $40. Did mine with his tool and it took me about 2 hours and I was very slow and meticulous...check out gnttype.org for the detailed process.

Regards, Bob

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by turbo buicks
i just figured they were bad b/c as far as i know they are stock and we all know what people say about the stock valve springs

More urban legand in that tale than truth. Sure they, like any valve spring, will get weak. But not to the degree a lot of folks have come to believe. If you're running a stock motor with no or very little internal work done to the block or heads, you wont have any trouble with the springs you've got.
You're not going to be winding the engine past 5,000 (or shouldn't be anyway), so they'll do just fine.

105-110# valve springs are WAY too stiff for a street driven turbo. And you stand a better than average chance of flattening a cam unless your lucky enough to have one of the rare motors with perfectly placed lifter bores (probably not though).

 

[salvageV6]

I almost agree with Dave here.

The 100lbs+ are too much.

The stockers will most likely test at 65 or so if you are lucky. They also won't be the same number on each cylinder like the new comp. cams would be.

New 80-85lbs. are the way to go.

Worth the $100.

Just my .02.

 

[TR Custom Parts]

What about someone who only has 22,000 original miles on his Turbo Regal? (ME!) Should I think about changing mine out? Figure my GN spent most of it's life just sitting in a garage so the springs were compressed for long periods of time.

 

[87LtdT]

Mark, I changed my springs out a year ago at about 34k miles...measured them on the same machine as the CC980's that went back in.

I found the stock springs to have 176 lbs at 1.25", and 68 lbs at 1.70" compression
New CC 980's were at 197 and 76 lbs respectively...all measured on the same machine.

At 12.21 you are probably above 5000 rpm so if I was you I'd change them...might not make much difference, but at $40 it's seems like a good thing to do just to be sure all is OK. I noticed no difference before or after my change....but I feel better

Spring life is normally characterised by a fairly rapid, but small, drop in strength, and then a very gradual drop due to flex cycles...

Regards, Bob