powermaster problems ,

[jetmech]

Ok i read some troublshooting guides on the gnttype website. I have no visible leaks and my p/s level went down and i think i may have sucked in some air. with key on i press brake pedal and i get brake light for a split second. If i pump my pedal with key off the more i pump it the more fluid returns to resevoir to the point it almost overflows. Then with key on the pump will run for about 17 seconds. If i just pump it down with 10 pumps of the pedal the motor runs for 8 seconds. Im thinking first off i should bleed the system since the motor side may have went empty but where did the fluid go. Is there an internal leak somewhere. This is the first time messing with this in the 12 years i owned the car. Thanks for your help.

 

[TRICKSIXPA]

The fluid on the left side to the motor goes into the unit when the power comes on. With the Power Master on you should only keep about an inch and a half of fluid on that side. Everything else you said seems ok. If your brake light stays on after running then you should diagnosis. Don't take anything apart on the unit without depressing the brake pedal about 10 times with the car off. If the fluid is dark replace dirty fluid will shorten the life of the unit.

 

[jetmech]

Ok but I do have excess pedal travel with the brake light coming on for a second then goes off. Do I need to bleed the motor if if sucked in some air

 

[turbo3.8]

Maybe its time to replace the accumulator bowl .
http://www.kirbanperformance.com/product/318/BRAKE+ACCUMULATOR+BOWL+#6697.html

 

[jetmech]

Possible, i just found the article in the Brake section and posted the question there.

 

[Ttype6]

Ok but I do have excess pedal travel with the brake light coming on for a second then goes off. Do I need to bleed the motor if if sucked in some air

When the brake light comes on the motor should start. How long does it run?

 

[Ttype6]

Do I need to bleed the motor if if sucked in some air.?

No.

 

[jetmech]

it runs a few seconds but if i hold my foot on the brake it slowly goes to the floor.

 

[Ttype6]

it runs a few seconds but if i hold my foot on the brake it slowly goes to the floor.

You need a new accumulator. That will stop the light from coming on and the pump from running so much. The pedal going to the floor means you either have air in your brake lines and they need to be bled or you have an internal leak in the master cylinder.

Your master cylinder has two sides to it. The drivers side of the reservoir feeds the master cylinder which is what creates the hydraulic pressure to apply the brakes and stop the car. The passenger side of the reservoir feeds fluid to the motor to create hydraulic pressure that makes the brake pedal easy to push (hydraulic assist power brakes instead of vacuum assist).

The first thing to do is bleed the brakes and see if it stops the pedal from going to the floor.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

I might have missed it in the copy but what brake bowl is currently on your unit? The original was all black with the nut inward, the GM second design had the nut to remove it on the outer edge and had yellow silk screen wording around it. Last but not least the Cardone bowl is larger and it has been virtually bullet proof since it came out several years ago. (Our company is the largest seller of the Cardone brake bowls).

Regardless of what path you take flush the brake fluid first as it has been suggested it should be almost clear. Chances are a new or tested used brake bowl may cure your ills...

denniskirban@yahoo.com

 

[jetmech]

Mine has the yellow sticker, the left side never went down but the passenger side may have went down far enough the get air in it. Ive done the accumulator bleeding a dozen times with no help. I think your right on it being the accumulator as i think this is where the fluid is going and taking so long to pump up. I will bleed the brakes first and if it still runs alot and spongy i will get the new acc. Thanks In 12 years i have only mess with the brakes twice as i have the rear end out twice. I guess thats not too bad.

 

[Ttype6]

I will bleed the brakes first and if it still runs alot and spongy i will get the new acc.

No, your pedal going to the floor and your light coming on along with the pump coming on are two different issues.
A acc will stop the light from coming on and the motor running so much. You need this.
To fix the pedal to the floor problem you'll need to bleed the brakes. If that doesn't fix the problem you have an internal problem in the master.

Yes,when the motor comes on it is pumping fluid into the acc where it is stored under pressure to assist in pushing the pedal. It's no big deal if you pump air into the acc,but you don't want to. Once the pump fills the acc and the motor stops,you can add a little more fluid to keep it from sucking air then release it by pumping the brake 10 time with the key off then turn the key on to start the motor and refill the acc.

The left and right side are completely different and separate from each other. Pumping air into the acc doesn't put air in your brake lines.

Your next step should be to bleed the brakes. If this doesn't stop the pedal from going to the floor,you have more problems and will need to re think you next step. If it does stop the pedal from going to the floor you'll want to get a new acc and you'll be there.

 

[87-WE2]

If you're hesitant about swapping to vacuum, don't be. My accumulator went bad and I hesitantly decided to convert to vacuum for $250 and a few hours in the garage versus buying a new accumulator for $200 and 5 minutes in the garage. I am SOOOOO glad I did it; even though there were a few unforseen headaches during installation, I am SOOOOO glad I did it!!!
I'm just sayin'!!!!

 

[Dennis Kirban]

A few more suggestions minor in nature that may help change the pedal distance....that may have not yet been addressed.
The biggest change you can make is to replace the original rubber hoses that feed each front brake caliper with the set of three stainless ones we sell and others sell. assuming yours are stil the original when you apply brake pressure 25 plus year hoses will swell slightly...switching to stainless and that eliminates the swelling its a nice simple upgrade that many owners do not just turbo buick owners.

I am not here to preach powermaster systems over vacuum as quite frankly we sell a lot of rebuilt powermasters and are probably now Cardones biggest customers.

Original cars as a rule always fetch more money and if you have a low mileage original car I would recommend staying with the powermaster system. If what I read correctly you have not had many issues with your powermaster I would stay with it.

Some of the issues owners are having today is because Buick never told owners to flush out the brake fluid every 1-2 years or more if needed. That coupled to the failure rate of the original solid black brake bowl, the fact that 3 GM suppliers used a steel brake proportioning valve instead of a brass one, the almost immediate recall concerning the defective black GE brake switch have all caused issues not to mention have rotors and brake pads the same size as grand mas V6 Regal.

Of the 5 Turbo Regals I have owned as test vehicles two of which I drove a lot back in the mid 1990s I only had problems one time and that was with a bad brake switch that would blow the 30 amp fuse. On the ones I bought for resale yes we did install numerous brake bowls matter of fact one of the WE4s we sold got one of the very first prototype Cardone brake bowls on it.

denniskirban@yahoo.com

 

[jetmech]

Thank you for all of your help, I will probably buy the acc. bowl and re bleed my brake system. I think since the drivers side never went low and the bowl is taking all of my fluid then the diaphram probably is leaking in the bowl. I have learned alot on this system as I said in 12 years i never really messed with it.

 

[wiseman]

I don't mean to high jack this post, but i need some assistance with my p.m. also. I have other posted, but have not got my problem resolved. I am on my second newly rebuilt p.m unit with the same exact issue. I installed it on Saturday, and bleed the brakes using the vacuum method and followed the instructions precisely. I still had a spongy petals once I finished. The pump would run for about 7secs just about every shot and stop like clockwork.

So, i took a quick drive and was not satisified what so ever. I came back and bleed the brakes using the conventional pump the brake and open the caliper stem method. The brakes began to work perfectly, were firm, and would stop on the dime. But, now my brake light comes on and my pump doesnt stop running. This unit only has about 4miles on it and my last rebuilt one from 4wks ago did thr exact same thing after it was bleed using the 2 person bleed method. Can some help? I hope there is no internal leak, do these p.m systems not like to to be bleed using the person / pump method?

 

[Ttype6]

I don't mean to high jack this post, but i need some assistance with my p.m. also. I have other posted, but have not got my problem resolved. I am on my second newly rebuilt p.m unit with the same exact issue. I installed it on Saturday, and bleed the brakes using the vacuum method and followed the instructions precisely. I still had a spongy petals once I finished. The pump would run for about 7secs just about every shot and stop like clockwork.

So, i took a quick drive and was not satisified what so ever. I came back and bleed the brakes using the conventional pump the brake and open the caliper stem method. The brakes began to work perfectly, were firm, and would stop on the dime. But, now my brake light comes on and my pump doesnt stop running. This unit only has about 4miles on it and my last rebuilt one from 4wks ago did thr exact same thing after it was bleed using the 2 person bleed method. Can some help? I hope there is no internal leak, do these p.m systems not like to to be bleed using the person / pump method?

To bleed the system,all you have to do is open the closest bleeder and let gravity do the work then continue to the next and so forth. It sounds like you have a bad pump or internal leak. You can use a small piece of rubber hose and press it down on the rear port in the passenger side reservoir and see if fluid comes spilling out of the hose. Does the fluid level in the passenger side of the reservoir go down when the pump comes on? Do you have power assist?

 

[Ttype6]

A few more suggestions minor in nature that may help change the pedal distance....that may have not yet been addressed.
The biggest change you can make is to replace the original rubber hoses that feed each front brake caliper with the set of three stainless ones we sell and others sell.

His pedal is going to the floor.

 

[Ttype6]

I will probably buy the acc. bowl and re bleed my brake system. I think since the drivers side never went low and the bowl is taking all of my fluid then the diaphram probably is leaking in the bowl.

NO!!!,have you read any of my posts? You have to bleed the bakes first to see if it fixes the pedal to the floor issue. If it does,then buy an acc. If it doesn't,you have to decide whether to buy a new Powermaster or convert. The drivers side doesn't go low,it feeds your bake lines to stop the car. The fluid on the right side is supposed to go into the acc. The diaphragm isn't bad,the nitrogen charge,on the other side of it has escaped.

 

[jetmech]

Yes there is a nitrogen charge in the accumulator but im sure there is a diaphram of some sort to seperate the nitrogen and the brake fluid. I will bleed my brakes first. But what im saying is if i fill my resevoir up in the rt. side it will go almost empty ( 1/4 inch) when i turn my key on.. The fluid is going somewhere and that is only one place- the accumulator, or a leak which i dont have. Also you said your self getting air into the accumulator side of the master doesnt get air in your brakes, well my left side of master never went low.