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Rental security deposit question

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VADER

Little engine that could
Joined
May 25, 2001
Messages
716
Hi, I rented a house out to a family on 8/15/03 and they moved out on 6/19/05. This house was built in 93 but had new carpet, paint, and was immaculate inside. I worked on it for weeks making sure it was spotless. I redid all the grout in the bathrooms, in the tub and floor. I painted the garage and floor. She even complained that it wasnt clean enough, and the realtor had the tiles, grout, and kitchen cleaned at her own expense. The lady finally accepted it, but it still wasnt good enough. They were not supposed to have waterbeds, unless they had insurance, they had 3, and no pets. The house is in my neighborhood, so I always check on it.
Shortly after they moved in, I saw they had a cat, but I didnt say anything. It looked like it stayed in the garage, but I cant tell. . She told me , well you know we hd the cat, but it died. Meanwhile, it was never mentioned to her before. I think she was saying that it see if I did. Last december I had to have the ac cleaned out, the lady kept complaining it stinks in there of mildew. Turns out she never changed the filter, and it was soaked. I spent $400 to get it cleaned, and she just says it still smells. I buy a new filter to leave there so they have no reason not to change it. I come back on 6/20 this year and its still sitting there, the filter inside was black. Meanwhile, she never unpacked her cardboard boxes the whole time she stayed. They never weeded the place, so I would every now and then go and weed it.
The lady calls me about 2 weeks ago before they moved out, and tells me, by the way, the toilet seats are dirty, but they were like that when we moved in. I have her move in inspection, and it doesnt note this, but in the inspection she picked every little thing apart, like one blind had no wand, pinholes somewhere. I did replace the blinds for her too. I even bought them new shower wands, because she whined about the calcium buildup on them.
Now that it is empty, I see all the marks on all of the walls (no holes) and it is just dirty all around, carpet has a path worn in it, and has 2 stains on it. Garage floor has a lot of paint that lifted (I will just fix, could be bad application), but other spots that are chipped, and chalky, like something was smashed on it. Bathroom floor is dirty, and the showers need to be regrouted from the mildew.
Now they moved out, and want the security back ($1350). What do you guys think I should keep for damage? I lot of things I can fix, but she was so adament about it being spotless, and then she leaves it like this. Ticks me off, but blatently lying about the cat. They were late twice with the rent, and I never charged them either. I think I should get at least $250 (pet fee), if not more.
 
You can't charge a fee for a pet after the fact when you knew it was there.

Most security deposits are for damage other than normal wear and tear. Mildew and dirt are normal wear and tear and the garage floor sounds like a bad paint job.

I would look for damaged items...things that need to be replaced and charge appropriately.
 
I agree with BlownZ - can't charge for "wear and tear" in a rental unit. The stains - maybe you can get a few bucks for the cleaning of the carpets. The AC unit - that's where you can get some bucks. You made an attempt, in good faith, to repair it by providing her with a filter that she never changed. If she agreed that she would put it in, but never did, you may be able to recoup some of the damage money there.

FWIW - Judges side with tenants 99.99% of the time and the law is really on their side. It's a real tough battle from your side.
 
So, I cant collect the pet fee? What about 2 late charges for rent? She never left me her fowarding address for the deposit, but has called for it. The lease (& I think the law) states it must be mailed to their last known address. I may just mail it. She never did put in a change either, she just goes by & grabs the mail from my box. I want to put an end to that.
The garage is probably the worst room, the floor is severly chipped. It would be like someone whacked it with a shovel or something.
I noticed in the closet one of the shelf brackets pulled out of the wall. that is damage since the wall is now cracked. There are also 2 stains, one of them is about 1 ft by 2 ft, and was prof cleaned but wont come out. Lease also states they were to leave utilities on for 5 days after, but they shut them right away. I think for the closet & 2 stains I should keep $100.
Does that sound ok?
 
She said she still has a key also. That mail thing I dont like, isnt it illegal?
 
You can't keep a deposit for normal wear and tear (as was pointed out earlier). Worn carpet, and dirty paint. Don't play games with the mail thing either, if she takes you to court she can sue you for up to 3 times the deposit and will win. You also can't keep it for pets if you knew she had them and didn't say anything at the time, same thing with the late charges, and the water bed. If you had in the lease she couldn't have a water bed, and you didn't know until after she left, if it caused damage you can keep some of the deposit.

You have 30 days to get back with her, put in writing all things that are damaged and deduct from the deposit. That way if she does take you to court, she can only get what you held back.

If you had a lease with her and she didn't give a 30 day notice she may owe you 1 month in damages, (check your lease).

A couple of things I learned from renting houses.

Rule 1 Most people will not take care of your things like you do.
Rule 2 Most Renters can tear things up faster than you can fix them.
Rule 3 There is always a great excuse why they don't have this months rent.
 
I would say, cut your losses and move on. Doubt if you would win in court on this. Welcome to the wonderful world of being a landlord. :( Try to screen your next client more carefully.
 
Ok, I will just return it. I will get her mailing address. She never put in a change of address but she supposedly moved somewhere else locally. I dont want her going in the mailbox though, I dont think she has a right to do that.
 
I used to work for a gigantic commercial/residential Real Estate firm, so let me tell you...this really doesn't sound like that big of a deal. Nothing personal, but toughen up a little if you want to be a Real Estate investor. Either that, or hire a management company. The items you've brought up don't sound very extensive, compared to the horror stories I've heard.

I'm not trying to be a prick, but believe me, R.E. management is a tough business.

Document everything. Use pictures, phone logs, receipts, and professional service tech estimates if necessary. You should have matching documentation and photos from the property before the lease commenced, as well. Most tenants won't sue for $100 - $200, but if you are dragged into court, you're likely to have to prove your case much more clearly than the tenant will. Since you're a private owner, you also don't have the advantage of a powerful legal team, and general counsel. Be careful, but be firm.

Don't let this woman continue to hunt through the mail. On your next call, obtain a valid current address, and warn her to stay off of your property. This is perfectly legal. Document the call.

You sound like a nice guy with good intentions, but be more direct with future tenants. It will serve you well to cover your @ss with strict lease policies and tougher standards. Be very clear with your tenant(s) with regards to what you expect from THEM, and be able to say NO to unreasonable requests.

Best of luck to you.
 
I find it is best to have a move-in sheet that lists expenses for various things and gives the tenants the price up front.

e.g. Dirty Toilet $25, Dirty Stove Burners $25, Dirty Oven $45- also it is pretty standard to always retain a carpet cleaning or general cleaning fee, at least in Oklahoma, but you should state that up front in the lease.

As far as the pet deposit, you're really out of luck unless you pressed the issue when you first saw the pet. On the late fees, if they were a year ago or whatever, you're out of luck there, too. If you don't get the late fee, immediately send a bill back to the renter. Pulling out of the security deposit after the fact will probably not stand up if they contest it. In this business, you have to be firm up front... it sucks sometimes but in the end if you aren't, it will cost you.

On a $1350 deposit, I would just come up with a figure that would cover what I needed to fix the items I could see were not normal wear and tear. Scratches on the walls are not wear and tear. Holes from hanging pictures, are. Be sure and take pictures of anything you use as an exception. Possibly adjust it for something that would not be worth their time (or yours for that matter) to argue about- e.g. if you take $500, they'll miss that. $350, probably not going to protest too loudly.

Now that it is empty, I see all the marks on all of the walls (no holes) and it is just dirty all around, carpet has a path worn in it, and has 2 stains on it. Garage floor has a lot of paint that lifted (I will just fix, could be bad application), but other spots that are chipped, and chalky, like something was smashed on it. Bathroom floor is dirty, and the showers need to be regrouted from the mildew.

Ballpark, I would pull out $150 for cleaning, and $35 each for the carpet stains, depending on size. But then I also would do the cleaning of the kitchen and bath myself (or better, have the wife do it) and probably leave the carpet stains. You just have to find items that are not wear and tear.

Also, one thing you might want to consider is being a little more 'slumlordish...'. The showers will still need to be regrouted after the next renter-. Spray some Tilex on that bad boy and put it through another cycle. You can always regrout right before you sell the house.
 
AH real estate Ain't it a Bitch!

I don't see the appeal :( of owning rental property.

I had 2 investment condos. Lucky I sold one before the late 80's fall.
But I held the other. I should have put a revolving door on the unit.
I had to repaint & clean everytime one of these PIGS moved out.

Never again.

I suggest FLIPPING
Buy a place
Fix it & resell it in a 3 month turn around.
 
owing a rental,

I have been there and done that, i currently own two rental houses, man its a bitch , if you call their former land owners, the former landlords will lie to you just to get them out of their house, here in indiana i can keep their deposit for 45 days, and by law the rent goes on untill the tenant hands me the keys to the house, no pets in the contract they signed you had better check at least once a week, lol, kids and pets and drunks can destroy your property faster than a newyork minute, good luck oc, :)
 
I suggest FLIPPING
Buy a place
Fix it & resell it in a 3 month turn around.

You need to hold it at least a year or you pay short term capital gains. Or divide anything you plan to make by "2" after Uncle Sam's cut!
 
I went over the house again before I typed my last post. Its not that bad, many things are wear & tear. I just clean these places as if I was living there, and it bothers me to seem them not care as much. In the real world though, I should be happy nothing is really damaged.
The lady finally put in her change of address too. The maillady said she backdated it by 4 days. They stamp it though with the date it is brought in. Weird lady. All I say is good riddance.
I know these things are a hassle, its like another part time job. You definitely work for the good return in equity. Hopefully I can ride it out. Thanks guys, good advice was given.
 
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