Several minor issues with fuel cell conversion

[incubus2432]

I finally got my Metco spare tire well fuel cell installed to feed Razor's kit and have a bug or two to work out. Here are the "symptoms" and pertinent info.....

.....everything worked perfectly prior to the conversion
.....when pushing the test button now the car stumbles as it should but the "armed" light lights red instead of green
.....under boost the armed light never switches to green and I'm getting plenty of alky at 20 psi (I hadn't intended to run 20 psi......guess I turned the adjuster rod a tad too many times)
.....if I disconnect the ground wire from the pump terminal then the green armed light comes on when I press the test button (and it functions as it should). See below for how I wired the ground.

Minor issue....
.....the low fuel light is staying on (plenty of alky in the tank to turn it off). If I manually push the float down the light goes out (reverse of what it should be).

Razor supplied me with the three conductor wiring harness to extend the original to the new pump location and I tested the connections and all is well. The level sender is two wires.....one to the original sender tan wire and one to ground.

The only thing left to me....and I am guessing I am the cause of the problem.....was the mounting of the pump and the wire that connected the bottom/outer most terminal of the pump to the original pump bracket. What I did was mount the pump to the passenger side fuel tank hanger with 4 heavy duty hose clamps (pump fit perfectly in a silicone intercooler coupler) so the pump is isolated from any metal. The terminal that used to be wired to the pump body, and therefore ground, due to original mounting method to the bumper bracket is now wired directly to ground along with the ground wire from the tank level sender. I'm starting to think this is my problem. Should the pump body be directly grounded (I tried just grounding it with a spring clamp and nothing changed)? Would connecting the pump body to the terminal mentioned previously then to ground suffice (seems like the best way to go and close to the original method)? Honestly I'm not even sure of the exact purpose of that terminal.....I just know how it was wired.

I know it sounds like a convoluted mess but I'm sure I'm just missing something simple. I'll call Razor if I must but I've been bugging him plenty lately and just in case I can't get ahold of him on Friday thought I'd post up here as well.

Any thoughts?

 

[turbo nasty]

Simply sounds like a wiring issue,

FWIW the LED should be red First then turn green aafter pump gets to a certain PSI. RED then GREEN

Yes the pump needs to be grounded. Note the ground wire going to the bracket.

Back away get the original wiring schematic and mimic all needs in the new location.

 

[incubus2432]

Simply sounds like a wiring issue,

FWIW the LED should be red First then turn green aafter pump gets to a certain PSI. RED then GREEN

Thanks!

Yes the pump needs to be grounded. Note the ground wire going to the bracket.

Back away get the original wiring schematic and mimic all needs in the new location.

I know it's supposed to be red then green. Mine stays red throughout the boost range. Pressing the test button triggers the green light correct?

I, possibly mistakingly, assumed that the pump is grounded through the terminal on the end of the pump that I mentioned above. It's a tan wire as received from Razor that goes from the pump terminal to the pump body.....which of course is grounded through the bracket. I just ran that terminal directly to ground without tying it in with the actual pump body.

My schematic only shows the terminal being grounded but that is likely since the pump body is normally grounded during installation.

I'm certainly not arguing with anything you mention......just clarifying things a bit. Clear as mud! :biggrin:

 

[Razor]

I know it's supposed to be red then green. Mine stays red throughout the boost range. Pressing the test button triggers the green light correct?

I, possibly mistakingly, assumed that the pump is grounded through the terminal on the end of the pump that I mentioned above. It's a tan wire as received from Razor that goes from the pump terminal to the pump body.....which of course is grounded through the bracket. I just ran that terminal directly to ground without tying it in with the actual pump body.

My schematic only shows the terminal being grounded but that is likely since the pump body is normally grounded during installation.

I'm certainly not arguing with anything you mention......just clarifying things a bit. Clear as mud! :biggrin:

Wire hanging off of pump=Ground.

Test button only simulates the kit activating at 7 PSI. So the amount of alky present at 7 PSI boost=the amount of alky you get when you press the test button. Two things stop the LED from changing. One is not enough voltage to spin the pump and get to 50 PSI pressure, second a leak in the system not allowing pressure to buildup.

The Voltage issue typically the easiest place to start is place the gain knob on "8", purge the kit and go into boost. It should go from red to green pretty quick. One note is becuase you have the cell in the back, you may have air trapped in the lines, pump, etc.. there is a lot of hose going on. Also this assummes the check valve was properly installed on the filter as well.

What I would do to purge your system, unhook the hose from the nozzle and place it into a container like a 1 gallon water jug. Turn ignition ON. Unplug the MAP sensor and jump its terminals on the plug Gray to Green using a small piece of bare wire. This will simulate 30 PSI boost. When you do this the pump will spin at full speed and you should see a really nice steady strem coming from the hose. Run out like 1/2 gallon. Once that happens, re-attach the hose, plug the MAP sensor back in.. and retry the system.

The float.. thats just a mechanical device. You mounted it from the top down correct? Meaning the wires come out the top of your cell. If so, the float shoud be down with no liquid, and up with liquid. If the float is down, the wires coming from it will show continuity=short. If the float is UP, it will show an open condition. Now if for some reason, it works backwards meaning up is short and down is open, what you need to do is take the float out of the tank and underneath it is a c-clip retainer. Take the retainer off, and flip the "BOB" that moves up/down. That changes its polarity. And retry.

Hope this helps,
Julio

 

[incubus2432]

I only had limited time between jobs today so I purged the pump as advised and it was a strong steady stream......it 3/4 filled a gallon jug faster than expected. So that aspect seems fine. The connections are solid with no leaks. No time or good weather for a road test.

After talking to Julio I learned that the terminals on the pump cap are for the pressure switch that sends the signal to the red/green LED and are no part of actual pump performance. The pump power and ground are via the main harness and there is no need to directly ground the pump body. So all of my wiring appears to be correct.

As far as the low level light being on it appears as though part of the float is upside down. No biggie.

I'll know more after the test drive but it appears that all vital aspects are working properly. I may have just had some air in the system on my first short run and my ground for the pressure switch may have been weak but that has been remedied as well.

 

[incubus2432]

Took it for a test drive today after fixing the float thingy and everything works as it should. Time to set the boost back to 25psi. :biggrin:

Thanks for all of the help!