MeanBuicks
Scaring the neighbors!
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Should GM look to Honda for performance?
- Thread starter MeanBuicks
- Start date
equalizer442
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2002
who ever voted for honda needs to give me there buicks and walk away slowley with there heads hung down.
Scottie-GNZ
Member
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2001
Apparently some of you are in the dark about Honda's engine development program. You think GM is going to Honda to figure out how to duplicate the engine in the Civic? They are (I hope) going to Honda to understand the technology used in the F1 engine program and eventually flow that technology down to their own production engines. The one thing that GM and other US manufacturers have failed at is developing a quality, high-performance small displacement engine for their small cars. Can you say Pinto, Cosworth-Vega, Quad 4, Neon? Those engines are horrible vibrators 
They want to understand the technology Honda used to make 1hp per cc, repeat, per cc, in a 1.5L turbocharged engine that had to live for a couple of hours in a road race with up to 100 shifts per lap! Or, the the current engine that is making 900hp @ 18,000 from a 3.0L N/A engine. Maybe this community does not appreciate something like the engine in the S2000 that makes 240hp from a 2.0L NA, but the OEMs do not develop cars and engines just for drag racing. They have to do something because they are getting killed in the small-car market segment.
Having said all of that, I hope the plan is not to just buy engines from Honda, but adopt the technology and apply it. I salivate thinking of that technology being applied to larger dispacement Yank V-8 or V-6 like BMW does with that incredible 4.4L V-8.
They want to understand the technology Honda used to make 1hp per cc, repeat, per cc, in a 1.5L turbocharged engine that had to live for a couple of hours in a road race with up to 100 shifts per lap! Or, the the current engine that is making 900hp @ 18,000 from a 3.0L N/A engine. Maybe this community does not appreciate something like the engine in the S2000 that makes 240hp from a 2.0L NA, but the OEMs do not develop cars and engines just for drag racing. They have to do something because they are getting killed in the small-car market segment.
Having said all of that, I hope the plan is not to just buy engines from Honda, but adopt the technology and apply it. I salivate thinking of that technology being applied to larger dispacement Yank V-8 or V-6 like BMW does with that incredible 4.4L V-8.
whitehot84
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2001
Looking to Honda for PERFORMANCE is like looking to Port-O-Let for lunch.
qwknuf6 jr
100% street car
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2002
Thats not like GM at all .
Better reliablity,more HP, lower emisions.
Thats not the GM I know.
Better reliablity,more HP, lower emisions.
Thats not the GM I know.
Strahd_Zarovich
SSG Schaecher (SHAKE)
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
I like the idea of Gm going to learn from Honda, but not buy from them. I hae a Honda that I use for a daily driver. 121,000 miles and it feels brand new. I get 37 to 40 miles per gallon and all I have to do is change the oil and a timeing belt every no and again. I can not argue with that. I said I would never buy a honda until I meet my girl friend and found out what you can get out of them. I beat the H@ll out of this little 4 banger 5 spd and it ask for more ever time.
Good Idea for GM. What does everyone have against Honda?
They make most of the stuff that they sell here right here in the US or Canada.
The 3800 is a great motor but it is getting difficult to keep it clean enough emission wise. The main reason it is still with us is that it is CHEAP to build.
Ford has gone to Yamaha for power in the past, (SHO)
Even Harley Davidson went to Porsche for the V-Rod!
Chrysler has used VW, Mitsubishi and now Mercedes Benz motors in their cars.
Some neat stuff going around the world with engine technology, keep your eyes open...
Mark F.
87 GN 11.9 @ 115
They make most of the stuff that they sell here right here in the US or Canada.
The 3800 is a great motor but it is getting difficult to keep it clean enough emission wise. The main reason it is still with us is that it is CHEAP to build.
Ford has gone to Yamaha for power in the past, (SHO)
Even Harley Davidson went to Porsche for the V-Rod!
Chrysler has used VW, Mitsubishi and now Mercedes Benz motors in their cars.
Some neat stuff going around the world with engine technology, keep your eyes open...
Mark F.
87 GN 11.9 @ 115
Yup, they (DCX) still owns part of Mitsubishi. GM owns part of Subaru, Daewoo, Suzuki, Fiat - all of SAAB, OPEL, Holden etc. They have Joint ventures with Toyota and Suzuki and more.
My point is that motors from other makes in GM cars is nothing new, most consumers of everyday cars don't care who makes the motor as long as it starts every morning. If anything Honda motor will make a Saturn worth more!
Mark F.
87 GN 11.9 @ 115
"Just because they owned a part of Mitsubishi, and now MB and chrysler is the same company. So they are using there own motors because they belong to them!"
My point is that motors from other makes in GM cars is nothing new, most consumers of everyday cars don't care who makes the motor as long as it starts every morning. If anything Honda motor will make a Saturn worth more!
Mark F.
87 GN 11.9 @ 115
"Just because they owned a part of Mitsubishi, and now MB and chrysler is the same company. So they are using there own motors because they belong to them!"
The old GEO line is Toyota motors, the Duramax Diesel is an Isuzu motor. I'm all for companies sharing technology to build us a better car.
Oh and an LS1 in the vette is 350hp and gets 30mpg..That is a damn good motor if ya ask me. Displacement or hp per cc doesn't mean anything if you can get a 350ci V-8 to get the same gas milage as a 4 banger in smaller car.
Oh and an LS1 in the vette is 350hp and gets 30mpg..That is a damn good motor if ya ask me. Displacement or hp per cc doesn't mean anything if you can get a 350ci V-8 to get the same gas milage as a 4 banger in smaller car.
The guys at GM could spend years teaching the Honda crowd how to design engines and powertrains.
It's the bean counters, and survey guys that forulate the game plan for what America gets. They're the clowns that should be wearing red hair wigs, and big shoes. All they can see from the 15th Flr is SUVs.
With all the moeny they wasted on the Caddie race car by only doing a 1/2 arsed deal, just shows the mindlessness in GM management.
You'll see the big car' plateau in a while, the large ones get leaner and the small ones porkier. It's a world class market now, so it'll all be done by committee.
ie
A camel is a horse designed by a committee.
It's the bean counters, and survey guys that forulate the game plan for what America gets. They're the clowns that should be wearing red hair wigs, and big shoes. All they can see from the 15th Flr is SUVs.
With all the moeny they wasted on the Caddie race car by only doing a 1/2 arsed deal, just shows the mindlessness in GM management.
You'll see the big car' plateau in a while, the large ones get leaner and the small ones porkier. It's a world class market now, so it'll all be done by committee.
ie
A camel is a horse designed by a committee.
GNscott is right, the LS1 rocks. The Northstar is pretty good too.
GM just needs work on the 4 bangers, I shouldn't say that until I drive the L850 Ecotec in the new saturn Ion but any of their old 4 bangers will shake your fillings out. (Iron Duke, Quad 4, saturn etc.)
I would love to see how smooth the new v6 is in the Caddy CTS.
Mark F.
87 GN 11.9 @ 115
GM just needs work on the 4 bangers, I shouldn't say that until I drive the L850 Ecotec in the new saturn Ion but any of their old 4 bangers will shake your fillings out. (Iron Duke, Quad 4, saturn etc.)
I would love to see how smooth the new v6 is in the Caddy CTS.
Mark F.
87 GN 11.9 @ 115
Originally posted by Scottie-GNZ
Apparently some of you are in the dark about Honda's engine development program. You think GM is going to Honda to figure out how to duplicate the engine in the Civic? They are (I hope) going to Honda to understand the technology used in the F1 engine program and eventually flow that technology down to their own production engines. The one thing that GM and other US manufacturers have failed at is developing a quality, high-performance small displacement engine for their small cars. Can you say Pinto, Cosworth-Vega, Quad 4, Neon? Those engines are horrible vibrators
Ummm........You might want to look at that Neon again....I don't think Hondah offers a $19,000 rocket like the new performance Neon SRT. This car runs a 14 flat quarter!!! And I love people who bash GM's "little engines" as i've had a few that went well beyond 200k, with minimal problems. My 91 Grand Am winter beater has over 170k trouble free miles, and STILL runs great!!! To each his own I guess.
