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Top Of Intake Blew Off!!??

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6SENSE

Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2001
Messages
1,635
Not a joke, just as the title says.... I can put my hand in through the top of the intake if I just peel away a bit more. I can see the valves in the heads!

This is a Turbomotion V1 intake. The first gen ones that Jay made for hotair app. Open plenum/gutted and ported.

I was leaving from a stop sign earlier this evening and gradually got on it like I often do, when from under the hood...POP!!! Just about the loudest backfire Ive ever heard. The engine cut off almost immediately. I heard a big "sucking air" sound for a second or two just like you hear when a intercooler hose blows off a IC car. I kept looking at my MAF pipe up to the TB but nothing. After about the third time I shined the weak flashlight across the engine I accidently spotted the mangled top of the intake. I was pretty much in shock I would say. I have never seen this before. The top basically tore off [pretty cleanly] almost all the way around where it was welded. Material is NOT very thick. It actually rolled up a bit like sheet metal.

Couple things running across my mind right now. #1 would be what the heck caused this? Could it really be that the top of the intake wasnt strong enough to take the stress? This brings me to the other thing that Im thinking about. I didnt get much response awhile back when I was just curious and asked who had one of these intakes and how fast have they gone with one. Only a few guys responded and one of them (if not more) didnt even have the car together yet.
I dont know how many were made and are actually in use. Also how many cars are really making decent power with one and have been doing so for a extended period of time, beating their car over the years like I have. Mine has been on the car since they first were sold which I think was late 90's? Point being that the intake for the most part as far as long term durability was never tested and is (or was) for the most part experimental. Recently my car has been making the most power it ever has, especially with the colder/denser air.......and boom. I was not having a big KR problem, O2s always stayed in the 800s, yada yada. Could it have been fuel (i.e. alky) igniting in the intake before reaching the cylinders???

After I get out of my state of shock I guess I will remove the intake and look for someone who can weld aluminum, NICELY. Im a little weary about reusing the material which again seems thin to me. I think while its off I should also get the intake flowed if Im going to use it. I dont remember ever seeing any actual flow #s for the intake.

Guys/gals, anyone ever hear of this hapening before? Give me some suggestions, insight, etc. I Did not see this coming and still dont really know exactly what to think......weird weird weird.

I will try to get some pics of it tommorow. Youve gotta see this.

Thanks
 
I will guarantee it wasn't the boost pressure that blew the intake apart. Either a lean pop or the cam sensor got out of it's window.

Most of the sheet metal intakes I've seen on other brands of boosted cars are very thin also.
 
I don't want to hijack this thread, but...


Why is it that everytime something breaks, someone automatically responds that we should upgrade to 86/87 combos?

You know, I had one and SOLD IT! Kept 2 hot airs instead!

Are they somehow immune from breaking? Mine sure wasn't.
 
I saw that post right after I started the thread last night, and I MADE myself go to bed. DOES THIS BOARD REALLY HAVE A HOTAIR FORUM ANYMORE? Should I have just posted in the general section?? The answer to everything is intercool intercool, or convert to 86/87. The majority of the topics discussed are how to add an intercooler, or where to go to do it:rolleyes: These cars CAN go fast, just like 86/87s. You just have to approach it differently. When it comes down to it it the whole idea is to MOVE AIR. If you are capable of pumping just as much air in and out then the rest is tweaking to do it quickly and efficiently.

I have nothing against IC cars. Why would I? That would be stupid. I just ended up starting out with a hotair and sticking with it. Heck I have had a 87 motor sitting on a engine stand for a couple years that I want to put in a car (rolling 87GN probably), but it is still not going in this car. I will find a different car for it when I get around to it. There is no replacing the satisfaction that is had by dealing with something much more rare and succeeding with it than to just jump on the band wagon and do the same exact thing that the guy next to you is doing. As far as go fast parts there is nothing out of the ordinary or special that I have done to this 84 setup to get it where it is, which is shaving 3 seconds and adding 17+ mph from the stock ET and going faster than some 87s with similar mods.
There are nothing but 86/87 around me and still only my car and one other TR (87LTD) are the only ones at the track on a fairly consistant basis for the past couple years (my '84 consistantly for the last 4 years). We have an 86 and 87 in my family (my brothers) and my hotair car stays on the road more than any of the three even with all the beating it takes.

Anyway, enough venting. cool 84, if lean pop then why did it not go the other direction and blow a head gasket like everybody else, or worse? Just seems weird that it blew out the top unless it was already stressed in that area. Probably good that it did though. This is an easier fix. I dont think the block felt a thing.
Dont know if this has any relation but I have always heard a very light hissing from my engine seemingly eminating from the drivers side. It wasnt always constant. After this happened I wonder if there was a pin hole leak in the weld around the top of the intake? Just speculation.
Please give more comments if anyone else has any insight. Thanks


P.S. I have pics now. Just need to figure out how Im going to upload.
 
Hell yeah, life's not always easy, and getting performance isn't always easy. You're taking the high road, but honestly it's just that much better when you get there. There's something to be said about doin things your own way. Hell, if we didn't all the performance cars would probably be SBCs in F-bodies. If you do ever decide to go an intercooled route, you could always do something like I'm gonna do for my minivan project. I've got a water to air unit from a Syclone, that'd be exotic on a GN.

Far as it goes my vote is to go get it weled, maybe slap a piece of sheet over it to re-inforce it and call it great till it breaks again. If it broke along a weld I'd have no qualms about calling it a bad weld and just bending it back together and rewelding. Welding ally isn't the easiest thing in the world afterall, it takes some talent. It could have just been a defect in the metal, or a bad weld. It *does* happen, and if you consider the pressures 20 PSI would put on a section of an intake it's halfways amazing that they hold like they do.
 
I agree, I don't want to go to an 86/7 setup. I hear from guys around here all the time, "Why don't you get an intercooler".

6Sense if you send me the pics I have site I can throw them on.



Andrew
 
6sense,

I have to go with cool84 on this one... Lean pop. I had it on my hot air with a stock maf pipe and blew out all the bellows in the plastic pipe. Slap a new piece of aluminum on it, weld it up, turn up the fuel pressure and let 'er rip!
 
I just tried clicking on the link myself and it works. However there are I think 6 images in the album and it looks like you only see one unless you enter [create] a name and password. Didnt know it did it that way. I guess thats one of there ways to getting more users. There is no cost at all so it might be a opportunity for some of you guys who have been wanting to share pics to take advantage of. Up to you, thanks.
 
Turbo Riviera, were you able to at least see the first pic of the album? That is what I saw. I just moved them around so that one of the intake pics was on top. There are 5 intake pics in all and one pic of a wheel that I have been looking for for years that was damaged.
 
Sorry to see that, looked at the pictures and here is my guess; the engineering, looks like 1/16, 3/32 at best aluminum the cover is made of, the top of the factory hot air intake after cut off lwould leave approx. 4"x6" hole, this is covered with a welded piece of above aluminum. 4"x6" is 24 square inches of flat (part of the problem) surface, at 10 lbs of boost, that could put 240 lbs of total pressure on the welded plate. 15 lbs of boost would put 360lbs of total pressure on the welded plate, and 20lbs of boost a total of 480lbs of total pressure on the plate. Either a thicker piece of aluminum could have better, or if the cover plate was made with some curve to it or dome like. Anything made to hold pressure is usually round, cylindrical, spherical, etc., or thick enough material.

The weld as mentioned by drac0nac could also be it, maybe even not the weld itself , but if it was ground down for cosmetic reasons, could have made it weaker. Not sure if the Turbomotion intakes were tested for strength or not, nor do I know how automotive aftermaket or even the auto manufacturers do their component testing, but hydrotesting a turbo intake to 1 1/2 times the maximum boost it would see would be the minimum insurance. Since we can't do that, thicker 1/8 to 1/4 inch plate would be better, and leave the welds as is, not ground down for looks.
 
I dunno, I'd be tempted to debate you on the grinding down the weld for looks part. It may make it thinner, but if you consider it also allows you to see any sort of bubbles in the bead before you put it on and reweld them. But then again with my welding I need all the help I can get :D
 
After looking at the picture, it is awefully thin. Still though, I doubt boost pressure alone would've done that, especially how it looks peeled back.

Lean pops are backfires though the intake instead of exhaust. I've seen the boost guage when this happens and it will peg at 30psi on a pop. I'm sure the pressure is much higher than 30 when it happens. I've had a carbureted car pop back through the intake while I was looking down the carb. It took a while for the eyebrows to fully grow back lol. A lot of aftermarket sheetmetal intakes for turbos/blowers use a burst plate just for this. It's a thinner area that is made to blow out in case of a backfire and is easily repairable. I'm glad I used 3/8" aluminum on my intake now.
 
On another note, I like to see the hotairs going fast and I'm glad to see people stick with it. Even though I'm intercooled, I would never do the conversion and my car is still much closer to the stock 84 setup than the 87 setup. I remember a few years ago how people call BS that I killed a Viper. Then BS when I killed a blown 5.0 even though I had video. Then BS that my car trapped 110 with a plugged convertor on pump gas even though I had two members of the board watching. Now people are going faster than I did without an intercooler. If I had it to do over again, I might buy a factory intercooled car but then again, how many hotairs were at this last Vegas meet....... None. It's nice being unique.

Hotair combos that work aren't as easy to come by as the late cars because there's so few of us. It seems like it's been just the last 4 years or so that we've found what works.
 
Thanks for the replies and insight guys

We got the car over to my house and into the garage this evening. Dont remember if I mentioned but luckily this happened 3 blocks from my Dad's house so we were able to push it down there last night.
My brother with very little effort bent that top piece up and it came completely off. It was just barely holding on to the intake at one corner (front passenger's). It is curved in the center as if it blew up at the middle detaching the sides, tugged at both the rear which completely detached along with the majority of the front.

for what its worth 23-24psi max boost is where my car usually seems to wind up. Ive hit 25 before for sure as indicated by the goofy boost readings on TLink (25psi and up TLink boost sensing cant read:( ). I dont really trust my VDO gauge. It seems to be about 2psi off (high). This little turbo just doesnt get going with my setup until it gets to 23psi.
 
I'd be willing to bet that's a lean pop also...

Hey man,if you want to pay the shipping back and forth I'll be happy to fab up a new plate and TIG it on for ya.I fab/weld aluminum all day for a living:cool: .

Lemme know...
 
Originally posted by WFO
I'd be willing to bet that's a lean pop also...

Hey man,if you want to pay the shipping back and forth I'll be happy to fab up a new plate and TIG it on for ya.I fab/weld aluminum all day for a living:cool: .

Lemme know...
PM sent
 
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