Why is my TTA sooo slow?

[CombatComProg]

I have an '89 TTA with 55k miles. It has Borla stainless cat-back exhaust, high-flow cat, 9" k&n cone filter, and thrasher chip. The best time I could get at the track (Gateway in St. Louis @ 100* & 500 ft. elevation) 14.2 @ 97.7 mph with a 60 ft. time of 2.309. The turbo and torque converter are stock. I was getting slightly better (maybe 1 or 2 more pounds) boost than stock. The car has average Yokohama 255/50/16s on it with about 15,000 miles on them. Tires spin before I can even build one pound of boost. Transmission shifts slightly before it hits yellow zone (can't remember RPMs off the top of my head) in 3rd and 4th. Will new Eagle F1 GS-D3 max performance tires on the back allow me to build boost, and approximately how much? What is the proper way to launch this car with my current set-up (assuming I get the new tires?) What RPMs is the TTA supposed to shift at in stock set-up through all the gears at WOT? What about with the thrasher street chip installed? Thanks everyone for your help! -Keith Gannon

 

[Razor]

Well you need seat time to get your 60 foot down to 1.9-2.0 which is very accomplishable. You cannot leave under boost with radials and accomplish this. Typically leave at zero vacuum and DONT mash the pedal.. get the car rolling and gradually go down on the pedal.

Easy is get a set of slicks.

Tires in 16 inch.. not much available. Nitto nmakes a great drag radial. BFG does also, as does Hoosier QTP, M/T ET Street, and the M&H. Standard 245/50 16.. only larger tires are the ET street..

For a street tire, the nitto is hard to beat.

Put a scanmaster on the car first. And follow the basic recipe's for putting a Buick into the 12's.

Did I say scanmaster.. watch your knock.. it will let you know when your pushing the car.

Also you dont shift into OD.. not at least until your like at 110+ unlocked, 120+ locked.

Shifts on a stocker should occur at 4800 RPMS approx.

 

[CombatComProg]

Thank you for the info. Why do I gradually put the pedal to the floor off the line instead of flooring it instantly? The mid 13's achieved on pure stock TTAs advertised in magazines of the past and TTA owners on this site were all done on stock radials & on pump gas right? Why with the nex exhaust, chip, maf pipe & filter am I stuck in low 14's? I'm new to racing, but I can't imagine I'm loosing .5 second from not leaving the line at the most optimum rpms. How many RPMs should I launch at, and what will it take for me to be able to launch with boost and not have my tires spinning? I'm assuming the mid 13's done on stock cars back in '89 in all those magazine articles I read were done by launching with boos on stock tires, or is there some other way to getting those times on stock tires? Eventually I'm going to want to see those front wheels come off the ground too. What's it going to take to get that? Thank for your help!!

 

[1BADDAM]

Originally posted by CombatComProg
The best time I could get at the track (Gateway in St. Louis @ 100* & 500 ft. elevation)

Turbo cars hate the heat, 100 degrees out, I'm not exactly suprised at the times. Better temps, car would be trapping 102-105

As for the rest, what Razor said.

 

[Razor]

Well the magazines tested cars when they we're brand new, they use "drivers", prepped tracks, and I bet way more of an ideal condition.

You need to reduce your 60 foot.. if you cant do this.. you'll never get out of the 14's. Why not mash the pedal.. your 2.3 shows me this. In other words control the cars acceleration.

If you want easy.. get slicks, put it to 5-7 PSI boost.. mash the pedal and go. I'll guarantee even with 97 MPH it will be lower 13's

There are some tricks like racing when the engine temp is at 140-150 at the starting line, locking the torque converter, opening the exhuast rite before the cat, put some higher octane fuel, up the boost, etc..

Stock TTA, at 21 PSI, slicks, open exhuast, 108 gas in the tank, race chip, converter locked, even with an inexperienced driver.. will run mid 12's easy at 108-110. You can do the same on alcohol injection at slightly higher boost with a slightly lower timing chip.. many many have done this.

Get some Nitto drag radials.. that ET will drop like a rock on a prepped track.

Alcohol will let you cheat high outside airtemps.

 

[RobR]

Like the others have said, you need better tires and less heat. You really need to power brake these into boost to get a really good launch. If the tires aren't allowing you to do that, you are at a big disadvantage. Basically leaving at idle and waiting for the car to build boost while its starting to roll.

If you can't get good tires, you can lock the converter. All things being equal, you might dip into the 13's at 100mph or so. You just need a paper clip or speaker wire.

But with the drag radials and a good launch, you might see almost a second off those times. Providing its not 100 degrees out again.

 

[CombatComProg]

Awesome. Can you give me the model and size of the Nitto drag radials? I couldn't find them on tirerack.com. Could you tell me more about locking the converter? I am not familiar with this. How is it done, what is the theory behind it and what it is actually doing to the car, and what negative side-effects does locking the converter on a stock car? Thank you all very much!

 

[Razor]

Size is 245/50 16 model is the 555R I believe. Go to

http://www.nittotire.com/tires_555r.asp

For info.

I'll let someone else expain locking the converter .. do some searches. There is plenty.

 

[20-psi]

How many miles you have on your plugs? Change them if its more than 4K before you race it again.

The times in my sig were done with Yokahama radials, 98 degrees, low humidity at a good track, Cecil County. and yes, I pulled the wheels up on that pass. It felt good.

 

[72firebird]

I will agree with the feathering the throttle. I think I launched at like 2k rpm on my radials and pulled a 2.0 60'. Also make sure the car cools down. Take ice with you and put it on the heat shield, intake pleanum, pipes, etc. That'll help get the air temps down that are gunna be going into the motor. Otherwise the motor will stay hot. I cut .4 off my et with the ice. Keeping it at a good tempature is key. This was my first time racing a RWD car at the track and my first turbo car so it was all an experience for me but I opened my intake between the filter and MAF just for the runs and I had no exhaust on it so I was running open downpipe. With this I ran a 13.4@100 with 2.0 60'. That was my first time out. Now I have the nitto drag radials and hope to go back soon.

 

[CombatComProg]

Assuming I get the Nito Drag Radials, how many RPMS should I hold the car to before I launch, and can I then mash down the gas or how gradual should I take it? Thanks again!

 

[postal]

Hmmm..... You filled about every worse case senerio in one single trip to the track, you may bave been lucky to run that good.

The first thing you need to do is get access to a scan tool. Speed parts only give you the ability to make more power, tunning the car properly is what actually makes the power for a given set up. The few upgrades you have on the car wasnt enough to make up for poor tunning and terrible air temps. Hook up with some one with a scanmaster and get the fuel right and hit the track again when its 70 degrees out side. The Buick Midwest challenge is going down in a couple of weeks in Morroco Indiana. There will be alot of people there you could meet and talk to (I'll be there).

Good 60' times are like a double edge sword. If you pull good 60' times for your set up then you'll pull good ET's for your mph. Which roughly means you'll pull good ET's for the amount of HP your making. If you dont atleast pull decent 60' times then you'll never run real good ET's for your set up. Your 60' times where down right crappy. A real good launch would probably reduce your ET by more than what an extra 100 hp could.

My first pass on my old set up was with regular street tires and I went like 13.2 @ 110 mph. A decent 1.69 sec 60' and tunning netted an 11.30 @ 119 two trips to the track later on that same set up (but with slicks). Just because your car did poorly this time dont think its any indication of what your car is capable of.

I would also get an air bag to put in the right rear spring. You can get one for $40 out of summit. If your going to do your racing at the track then get slicks. Buy the drag radials down the road when your regular tires wear out. If most of your racing is going to be out on some highway then I would get alcohol injection. I would rather loose a race because I was frying my tires than because I didn't have enough hp!

HTH: Jason

 

[Razor]

72firebird, ya did a lot of no-no's

One your MAF needs a filter on its end. If not it wont read correctly. Exceptions are custom MAF's with custom chips. Stock GM MAF.. needs a filter. Just like it needs at least one screen in it.

Secondly.. icing down the intake doesnt work. You'll stop that when you hit the 11's. Icing down the IC doesnt work. At best you'll drip water on the track and it gets under your rear tires. At worst you'll have condensation on electrical connections like your TPS, coil pack, etc...

Whether you can slam the pedal down on the nitto's depends on burnout, track prep, tire pressure, and how well you read conditions. Seat time is a must.

I would leave at 2-3 PSI boost staged.. when the lite came down, slam the pedal call it a day. If I brought it up to 8-10 PSI it would blow the tires. Yet on slicks I could bring it to 10 PSI and slam the pedal down. Both yielded great results.. on different tracks.. different strategies.

Scantool is priority number 1. Theyre easy cars.. really. Just have to learn to watch what its telling you.

20-psi, must have incredible track conditions to pull wheels on street radials. I dont think anyone here has ever done such a feat. Postal on slicks and a 9 inch converter has done it. We get close on slicks.. but that 9 bolt under the car.. it may feel like it did.. usually will need a 1.4 60 foot to be in the air. At 1.5's the rear squats hard.. but no in the air.. Ive done it hundreds of times. Never on regular radials. Best on drag radials i've ever heard of was like a 1.55-1.58. Plan on 1.8's.. if you can get it to do 1.6's.. your ahead. 2.0 on regular street tires.. absolutely.

 

[JCSTTA]

You need to get a scan tool ASAP! Running 17-18psi in 100 degree weather with no I/C shroud, you have to be getting some knock.

just my .02

 

[CombatComProg]

haha, hey Jeff. Actually I got knock, air/fuel, boost, and exhaust temp gauges installed, so I think I can wait a wee bit on the scanmaster. If anyone has one for sale at a good price, however, I would definitely be interested. Josh did 16 second 1/4 in your TTA haha. Actually he was having boost problems, but it was kind of funny after all the trash talking about my car. I just ordered an in dash electronic boost controller and I'm gonna get Razor's alky kit. I just did a few more mods -atr 3" downpipe, lighter pulleys, stainless maf pipe, chip, 160* thermostat, and oredered a set of nitto 555 extremes, so will all that plus my previous stuff and the alky kit, I should be hitting 12s. How is the deployment going?

 

[JCSTTA]

Originally posted by CombatComProg
haha, hey Jeff. Actually I got knock, air/fuel, boost, and exhaust temp gauges installed, so I think I can wait a wee bit on the scanmaster. If anyone has one for sale at a good price, however, I would definitely be interested. Josh did 16 second 1/4 in your TTA haha. Actually he was having boost problems, but it was kind of funny after all the trash talking about my car. I just ordered an in dash electronic boost controller and I'm gonna get Razor's alky kit. I just did a few more mods -atr 3" downpipe, lighter pulleys, stainless maf pipe, chip, 160* thermostat, and oredered a set of nitto 555 extremes, so will all that plus my previous stuff and the alky kit, I should be hitting 12s. How is the deployment going?

I know Josh was having some problems because the car had gotten a little warm in line that night. I'm sure he will get it all worked out in time, the car has alot of potential. Looks like you are getting a pretty good list of mods going. Don't remember any trash talking about your car other than the ditch, but maybe thats just me?

BTW it's not a deployment I am stationed here

 

[Darkside8889]

I did a little trash talking , honestly from the way the car ran on the way there I thought it would go mid 13's no problem. It's amazing what 40 degrees in coolant temp will do to these cars. I now know I have some serious tuning issues. It will all be straightened out when I get a burner. We'll have to rematch

 

[CombatComProg]

I know Josh was having some problems because the car had gotten a little warm in line that night. I'm sure he will get it all worked out in time, the car has alot of potential. Looks like you are getting a pretty good list of mods going. Don't remember any trash talking about your car other than the ditch, but maybe thats just me?

Yeah, well you made fun of my 60 ft. and 1/4 time the first night too. Deployment, PCS, what the hell do I know about all that military stuff. I'm an X2. Josh -you get the kinks worked out of the TTA yet? Do you have stock converter in your car? I'm looking to upgrade mine and was wondering if you could help me with that. -Later

 

[Darkside8889]

Gotta get a burner to get them straightened out. My converter is still stock but if you want to do yours I'm sure we can get it done in a day's time. I've done 2 on my formula and the one on jeff's gta. They really aren't all that hard, just time consuming. Air tools make it much easier though

 

[JCSTTA]

Originally posted by CombatComProg
Yeah, well you made fun of my 60 ft. and 1/4 time the first night too. Deployment, PCS, what the hell do I know about all that military stuff. I'm an X2. Josh -you get the kinks worked out of the TTA yet? Do you have stock converter in your car? I'm looking to upgrade mine and was wondering if you could help me with that. -Later

Thats cool, I was just trying to help you though!