120 LBS and stock fuel or stock modified fuel lines

[daves87gn]

I was wondering if its possible to run 120 LBS injectors with stock fuel lines?

I plan on feeding both sides of the fuel rail, doing the my regulator like has been posted with the welded on AN fitting and running a double pumper.

goal is bottom 10 maybe dip into 9

would like to hear from people who are running a similar set up or have tried to, and any tips they wouldn't mind sharing

Thanks
Dave

 

[Bill_Ritter]

Kevin B went 10.20's on 95's and stock lines, but I'm not sure what your build is compared to his. You never know till you try it... although I would think AN lines would be much more efficient at that flow level.

 

[daves87gn]

Kevin B went 10.20's on 95's and stock lines, but I'm not sure what your build is compared to his. You never know till you try it... although I would think AN lines would be much more efficient at that flow level.

build is:

252 CI, ported aluminum heads, 6768, 218-218

 

[KevinB]

build is:

252 CI, ported aluminum heads, 6768, 218-218

Close to what I have, but mine is only 234". Same turbo.

I went 10.2 @ 137.75 (9.7 mph). That was at a street race type event with no track prep so I couldn't launch hard (1.8 60') left of idle.

I think a stock rail with a good regulator is all you need for that goal. Kip Asplund sells a regulator that I have come to really respect. It bolts on to the stock fuel rail. I have used a Weldon 2025 with the stock rail and this regulator with zero issues. A weldon 2025 flows enough fuel to make 1200+ hp at 80 psi...if that tells you anything.

My setup for the 137.7 run was: home made double pumper. 2 xp pumps (walbro 307's with relief pushed in), -10 feed to a screw in fitting in stock rail. For the return, I had a screw in fitting in the regulator to a -6 that went into the stock feed. Turned fuel filter around.
no signs of any plug running lean. If you have a good supply, the stock fuel rail will work for high 9's on e85. I have the proof. Unless you want to have some bling, my setup works. It also worked for gabby down in Florida. Talked to him on the phone and he has been deep into the 9s with the stock rail. I went 142 mph with the stock rail on race gas.
I was having some issues at 127 mph with the stock lines. That's when I switched to the -10. Think it was a bad pump though. I would do at least a -8 for low 10's

 

[jasjamz]

If you search for infomation on Gabby, Kevin B, and Turbocliff you will find alot of answers on the fast E85 cars. Kevin B has posted a ton of infomation from the time he started using it. Also TurboBuick86, Tom Robinson, and Turbo Llyod ,have cars using it running well. Pictures and specs of all these cars.
I know telling you to search may come off kind of rude to some but you will see things you didn't notice before and answer a question you would have asked next. I do it a lot!!

 

[KevinB]

Yeah check out the "new to e85" thread I started in this section. It starts from when I first thought to do it and then some of the things I found on the way. I still haven't pushed hard it though. I was just reading on yellowbullet and some are now saying run the coldest possible plug and run it on the lean side with less timing.

 

[jdpolzin]

We run 120's on stock fuel lines and single pumps wihout problems. We dont do a whole lot of track runs and are mainly street driven cars but will tell you with a double pumper, stock fuel lines, 120's and TT chip a TurboFarm West hot air has gone over 160mph on the street with no problems. It really depends on how your applying your power. Wide open blasts on the street are much different than 1/4 mile passes on the track. 1/8 mile passes are also different. If your looking for a 1/4 mile car, I would personally install -10 and -8 Teflon lines with a good external pump. Thats a long way to be WOT. If you dont race and have a decent pump in the tank now, buy a set of 120's and a TT chip and run it. Then as you go, make changes to the fuel system to support your needs.

 

[daves87gn]

Thanks for all the info guys

its gonna be mainly a street car, with my be one trip to the 1/4 and maybe a few to the 1/8 per year

gonna start out simple with a double pumper, and try to remove any restrictions and go from there

any other info would be greatly appreciated

 

[daves87gn]

If you search for infomation on Gabby, Kevin B, and Turbocliff you will find alot of answers on the fast E85 cars. Kevin B has posted a ton of infomation from the time he started using it. Also TurboBuick86, Tom Robinson, and Turbo Llyod ,have cars using it running well. Pictures and specs of all these cars.
I know telling you to search may come off kind of rude to some but you will see things you didn't notice before and answer a question you would have asked next. I do it a lot!!

No problem, and not rude

I did use the search function and have followed/subscribed to KevinB's threads along with read most of the E85 threads, but there always seems to be someone that says you need to run this or that and that stock lines/rails wont work, and i was looking to hear from people like you, Kevin, and others that have done it and not just giving opinion on what they believe will or wont work.

I believe it was Cliff that made big power using stock lines, double pumper, and stock rail, and in the same thread someone tells him he need to duel feed this rail, and -10 lines

I wanted to know what would be needed to run 120's from people that have real world data.

 

[KevinB]

No problem, and not rude

I did use the search function and have followed/subscribed to KevinB's threads along with read most of the E85 threads, but there always seems to be someone that says you need to run this or that and that stock lines/rails wont work, and i was looking to hear from people like you, Kevin, and others that have done it and not just giving opinion on what they believe will or wont work.

I believe it was Cliff that made big power using stock lines, double pumper, and stock rail, and in the same thread someone tells him he need to duel feed this rail, and -10 lines

I wanted to know what would be needed to run 120's from people that have real world data.

No problem. Glad to help. I am pretty sure cliffs car has a -8 feed and stock return.
Mid tens should be no problem for what you have. I think the stock line in stock configuration, 120# injectors and a double pumper will get you there. I did mid tens in that configuration but with 95# injectors

I got some good questions on tuning being answered by knowledgeable people over on yellowbullet.com. I am looking to use these new ideas after bowling green. As always, I will post results.

 

[daves87gn]

No problem. Glad to help. I am pretty sure cliffs car has a -8 feed and stock return.
Mid tens should be no problem for what you have. I think the stock line in stock configuration, 120# injectors and a double pumper will get you there. I did mid tens in that configuration but with 95# injectors

I got some good questions on tuning being answered by knowledgeable people over on yellowbullet.com. I am looking to use these new ideas after bowling green. As always, I will post results.

Yea, been readying over there to, just easier to follow here since we all have the same basic car

 

[daves87gn]

Hey Kevin,

was doing a little more reading, on your runs with the 95 LBS injector when your duty cycle was in the 90% range, do you think it was the injector or fuel supply?

 

[Brian Verson]

Hey guys, I though I saw on here there is an adapter that fits the stock feed line to turn it into a return line when running E-85
If anyone can help me with this part # or web site would be great.
I'm running -8 up and the stock feed line back for the return. I dont want to cut the line, but im getting tires of looking for this adapter. HELP Please

 

[KevinB]

Hey Kevin,

was doing a little more reading, on your runs with the 95 LBS injector when your duty cycle was in the 90% range, do you think it was the injector or fuel supply?

I think I had a bad fuel pump. I changed a lot all at once so I will never know lol

 

[KevinB]

Hey guys, I though I saw on here there is an adapter that fits the stock feed line to turn it into a return line when running E-85
If anyone can help me with this part # or web site would be great.
I'm running -8 up and the stock feed line back for the return. I dont want to cut the line, but im getting tires of looking for this adapter. HELP Please

I didn't get fancy on mine. Went to napa and got a 3/8 compression fitting to female 3/8 npt. Then got a -6 male to male 3/8 npt. No signs of leaking from over the summer

 

[Brian Verson]

Thanks Kevin, Going by Napa today :]

 

[KevinB]

Thanks Kevin, Going by Napa today :]

They will not have the -6 though.

 

[BEATAV8]

My car has 120's and stock lines with champion rails. I just got it running and I still need to install the double pumper parts. The car has datalogging capability ofcourse, and a fuel pressure transducer is installed in the fuel rail. With the fuel pressure data, we should be able to put the question to rest about whether or not the stock lines can deliver.

 

[BEATAV8]

Hey guys got some fuel pressure data....

I'm going to say NO. The stock lines aren't going to do the job supporting 120's.

I'm seeing fuel pressure regulation issues when the 2nd pump is running. The expected pressure is 66psi with the 120's running around 60% duty, and it can achieve 66psi, but I'm also seeing spikes to 72psi. Looks like the return line is too restrictive and it's making the regulator bounce.

 

[MikeL.]

Rats...I'm an e85 covert and running in tank dual pumps through stock lines and rail feeding 120's as well with DC at 90%. Where is everyone finding teflon/e85 friendly lines?