Are Ported heads worth the$$
- Thread starter SpeednV6
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NOSjohnWE4
Guest
poWaaah
Yes, porting is worth it. Especially with a turbo that flows more. They work hand-in-hand. Your power is ALL in the combo. - heads, cam, intake (manifold and carb., throttle body). HTH....
John C.
LedSLED Motorsports
Yes, porting is worth it. Especially with a turbo that flows more. They work hand-in-hand. Your power is ALL in the combo. - heads, cam, intake (manifold and carb., throttle body). HTH....
John C.
LedSLED Motorsports
T
Turbo 6 Justin
Guest
air in and air out is they key, yes they help. My advice if you can't do it yourself send them to champion, they may not be the best of the best since they are CNC'ed and then touched up from there and a few guys out there can do a better job by hand they may take more time on them but have spent less overhead on the machining process so they offer them for a fair price. They will help a lot, champions are 1100-1200? and are probably worth it, other guys price it at 700ish. IF YOU are running deep into the 11's go for it
on the other hand if you like to play with every little itty bitty piece of your car do it yourself. there is a lot of great info out there. look at pictures, descriptions, they all help. I did mine myself and I have to say the results were more than I expected, more power at lower boost was nice and I knew that would happen but I did not expect to be able to run a much higher boost level with 93 octane (IC and PTE plenum helped no doubt, but I have seen just heads do the same thing a few times lately)
what do you want to run? 11's buy the standard abrasives kit from summit do a week of reading and clean up the really bad parts and port match them to the gaskets.
faster than that? buy a set of stock heads for $100 and destructively play with them till you find all the limits (bowl water jackets, pushrod holes, floor/roof/side boundarys, valve guide areaas) for the $40 for the porting kit $40 for a good carbide bit and $20 for a cheap die grinder (assuming you have an air source) and for $200 you have a set of heads that will flow really well and can take you 10's (some will say it is more precice than that but I have seen different as long as you do your research)
so your question is loaded, is it worth it? what do you want? how much do you want to do yourself vs. how much are you looking to spend?
Oh yeah and I would not run the stock cam with P&P heads. run a 206/206 212/212 or the 208/208 not to mention the (I'll get the numbers wrong) 205/212 or other split ratio cams
Just my .02 but I have been down this road before
on the other hand if you like to play with every little itty bitty piece of your car do it yourself. there is a lot of great info out there. look at pictures, descriptions, they all help. I did mine myself and I have to say the results were more than I expected, more power at lower boost was nice and I knew that would happen but I did not expect to be able to run a much higher boost level with 93 octane (IC and PTE plenum helped no doubt, but I have seen just heads do the same thing a few times lately)
what do you want to run? 11's buy the standard abrasives kit from summit do a week of reading and clean up the really bad parts and port match them to the gaskets.
faster than that? buy a set of stock heads for $100 and destructively play with them till you find all the limits (bowl water jackets, pushrod holes, floor/roof/side boundarys, valve guide areaas) for the $40 for the porting kit $40 for a good carbide bit and $20 for a cheap die grinder (assuming you have an air source) and for $200 you have a set of heads that will flow really well and can take you 10's (some will say it is more precice than that but I have seen different as long as you do your research)
so your question is loaded, is it worth it? what do you want? how much do you want to do yourself vs. how much are you looking to spend?
Oh yeah and I would not run the stock cam with P&P heads. run a 206/206 212/212 or the 208/208 not to mention the (I'll get the numbers wrong) 205/212 or other split ratio cams
Just my .02 but I have been down this road before
"TE-44, Blue-Tops, Walbro-307(Hot-Wired), 9"K&N, 206/206cc, 9"l/u Precision converter, Jet-Coated exhaust, 3"T/HDP, stock exhaustw/open dump, no cat.,Use 100octane exclusively-RA100 chip, stock ic, Nitto drag radials, stock heads,adj. fuel reg., run 20psi all the time.
1st time @ the track:
Best, then blew the head gaskets!
60'-2.055, 1/4@ 12.852, @ 109.74"
Speed, your combo with 100 octane and only 20#s of boost seems pretty conservative, so why did your headgaskets blow on the first trip to the track? massive amounts of knock or what?
1st time @ the track:
Best, then blew the head gaskets!
60'-2.055, 1/4@ 12.852, @ 109.74"
Speed, your combo with 100 octane and only 20#s of boost seems pretty conservative, so why did your headgaskets blow on the first trip to the track? massive amounts of knock or what?
Porting the heads is definitly worth it! Just recently I had a set of iron heads ported by Frankg. My best time before with a Red Armstrong 93 chip was 12.3. After installing the heads (no other mods were done at this time) with 24lbs of boost, my time dropped to 11.76 at 115.76. Before, with a Red 107 chip, it ran 11.90 at 114. I still have not tried it with this chip yet because I was asked to not come back until I have a rollbar. This car has a stock 70k short block with stock cam and stock converter. All of these runs were made at the same boost level and race fuel.
Ken
Ken
strikeeagle
New Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2001
Practically speaking, you can get down to low 11s/high 10s with unported heads and plenty of boost. Beyond that you're looking at heads (ported iron or ported or unported aluminum), and the sky's the limit.
Heads will allow you to run much less boost for a given ET/speed, which "should" be "safer", or the same boost, with a 0.5 seconds or greater improvement in ET.
Figure heads to cost $2000-$2500, by the time you buy the heads and associated clap-trap (gaskets, bolts, beer, potato chips), and assuming you pay for the install. Of course, now a bunch of guys will write in they did it for $499.
Interestingly, heads provide enough power to easily grenade the stock block, so to me, they're a real jump off point. Lots of guys have jumped off, and regretted it. Look in Cars For Sale - LOL.
The problem is, when does the car stop being a GN and start being the boxy, black equivalent of a gutted Camaro? Not an easy question to answer.
Heads will allow you to run much less boost for a given ET/speed, which "should" be "safer", or the same boost, with a 0.5 seconds or greater improvement in ET.
Figure heads to cost $2000-$2500, by the time you buy the heads and associated clap-trap (gaskets, bolts, beer, potato chips), and assuming you pay for the install. Of course, now a bunch of guys will write in they did it for $499.
Interestingly, heads provide enough power to easily grenade the stock block, so to me, they're a real jump off point. Lots of guys have jumped off, and regretted it. Look in Cars For Sale - LOL.
The problem is, when does the car stop being a GN and start being the boxy, black equivalent of a gutted Camaro? Not an easy question to answer.
salvageV6
Daily Driver
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
I followed you right up to the gutted Camaro part.
I was thinking a set of ported iron stockers would be a totally stock appearing mod. No other changes excepting perhaps the roller rockers.
Porting would be on the inside and I would even get the TTY stock bolts and GM headgaskets.
I was thinking a set of ported iron stockers would be a totally stock appearing mod. No other changes excepting perhaps the roller rockers.
Porting would be on the inside and I would even get the TTY stock bolts and GM headgaskets.
strikeeagle
New Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2001
OK, I'm probably gonna get way off topic here...
The point I was trying to make, and I guess I did a poor job of it, is that for me, heads are the first, big step in crossing over a line that I'm not sure I want to cross over. That is, without heads, the party's basically over at low 11s, but it's a pretty nice party.
With heads, you may be tempted to go further, and you may regret it. How many times have we seen heads turn into a $6-$7,000 motor rebuild, a Felpro, a T76, 83's, a cage, fiberglass everything, plastic buckets, fuel cell, battery relo, car for sale, Subaru wagon, contentious divorce, brutal death at the hands of her new boyfriend?
The point I was trying to make, and I guess I did a poor job of it, is that for me, heads are the first, big step in crossing over a line that I'm not sure I want to cross over. That is, without heads, the party's basically over at low 11s, but it's a pretty nice party.
With heads, you may be tempted to go further, and you may regret it. How many times have we seen heads turn into a $6-$7,000 motor rebuild, a Felpro, a T76, 83's, a cage, fiberglass everything, plastic buckets, fuel cell, battery relo, car for sale, Subaru wagon, contentious divorce, brutal death at the hands of her new boyfriend?
I would definately recommend maxxing out your combo before doing any upgrades to the heads. I wouldn't pull the heads off or go into the longblock in any way until you absolutely have to. It's too easy to run deep into the 11's on a stock longblock to risk porting the heads and adding a cam etc until it is absolutely required for your goals or because you hurt your motor and have to rebuild it.
Very interesting topic we have going here. My experience says, yes go with the ported heads. Engines are basically air pumps, and the more efficient you make them, the more power you get with less stress on the parts. My 87 ran 11.60 @ 116.7 with 18#, a RA93 chip, and spinning ET Streets on a set of ported/big valve 8445 heads. The car will go quicker, but it's having a chip/timing advance issue right now. The heads can be the key to easy power, even if everything else is pretty much stock. With your current set-up, I say get the heads done and hang on. Even just a good cleanup of the runners and bowl area will make a big difference.
I also just noticed the end of your sig.....Something had to be amiss to only run a 12.85 @ 109 My 86 went 12.96 @ 108 on reg old radial T/As, 93/Xylene mix, 20#, and a RA93. Something has to be off with your combo, especially if it blew the h/g at 20-21#. I should know, just went through that with the 87.....blew a Loc-Wire gasket because the head bolts weren't torqued properly.... ...oh well, guess that's what I get for buying a garage queen...lol.
I also just noticed the end of your sig.....Something had to be amiss to only run a 12.85 @ 109 My 86 went 12.96 @ 108 on reg old radial T/As, 93/Xylene mix, 20#, and a RA93. Something has to be off with your combo, especially if it blew the h/g at 20-21#. I should know, just went through that with the 87.....blew a Loc-Wire gasket because the head bolts weren't torqued properly....
...oh well, guess that's what I get for buying a garage queen...lol.Hmmm, just noticed the blue tops in the sig.....What were your O2s going down track cuz the bt's may be getting close to max with your combo. Add ported heads and you'll need to step up to 009's at the minimum. IMO I would look at the MSD 50's...better to have the extra cushion than run the ragged edge of destruction...
Originally posted by strikeeagle
OK, I'm probably gonna get way off topic here...
The point I was trying to make, and I guess I did a poor job of it, is that for me, heads are the first, big step in crossing over a line that I'm not sure I want to cross over. That is, without heads, the party's basically over at low 11s, and that may be a very nice party to attend.
With heads, you may be tempted to go further, and you may regret it. How many times have we seen heads turn into a $6-$7,000 motor rebuild, a Felpro, a T76, 83's, a cage, fiberglass, plastic buckets, car for sale, Suburu wagon, contentious divorce?
I think this is a great example of what to expect. If you have a street car, it is best to just leave the heads unported. I believe this leaves a "saftey net" built in the combination. You can go plenty fast with unported heads. I agree, I have seen and heard lots of stories about the $hit hitting the fan once the ported heads were added. You need to have the proper scan tools, fueling, C-16 to safely utilize all the power you will be making with ported heads. That is where it becomes a nightmare when you are trying to balance race vs. street.
Hmmm, maybe so, but why push the envelope so hard with unported heads when you can have them ported and not have to lean on the car so hard to get the results you want? If anything that would result in more worry/broken parts than if you had ported heads and didn't have to push it as hard. JMO though...
I took the opportunity to put ported irons on my car while building up a new motor for it. Check my sig, these times are at 23psi and 20* of timing so I can definately vouch for the statement that you are able to run quicker with less boost and timing. Where you draw the line is completely up to you. My friends think I am completely out of my mind for not throwing on a PT 72 and 83's. Personally I think they are nuts. I just wanted an ultra fast street car. I am less concerned with track performance and I'm not interested in putting a bar in the car.
Ported heads are great on the street too. Nothing can touch me and I scare the S**T out of myself on a daily basis.
Ported heads are great on the street too. Nothing can touch me and I scare the S**T out of myself on a daily basis.
All other things being equal, the one with the better heads wins the race. That pretty much sums it up. You have to decide if you will eventually push the car to the point of needing them. I have ported irons and the difference with even a stock turbo was noticable. If nothing else, a home clean up of the ports and a port match to the intake would give a nice bang for the buck.
I do not buy the theory that "you are pushing the car less" with ported heads......all you are doing is making it a more efficient air pump so less boost is required to make the same power.....stress on the motor consists of cylinder pressure/HP....how you get there doesn't matter...I will agree running less boost will make it easier to avoid detonation, but it will not "stress" the engine any less at a given power level.....500hp at 20 lbs boost is the same as 500 hp at 30 lbs boost!
strikeeagle
New Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2001
Right on the money, Woody, as usual...
