Benefits of a roller cam

Roller tappets will keep the oil cooler vs FT in speaking tappet to lobe face friction heat.
FT is not only running on the face its also spinning and rising and fallling in its bore. Whereas roller just has its wheel and rise and fall and of course the wheel is less friction
 
Roller tappets will keep the oil cooler vs FT in speaking tappet to lobe face friction heat.
FT is not only running on the face its also spinning and rising and fallling in its bore. Whereas roller just has its wheel and rise and fall and of course the wheel is less friction

Correct, it's steam rolling the oil layer -vs- hydrolic pressing,30 mile's plus Hwy trips will do it's toll
 
Back when oil was good, my T had 185,000 on the stock unopened engine. Flat tappet technology isn't "bad" but with today's EPA approved communistic oils its safer to go roller or you have to use ZDDP or a Brad Penn style oils.
 
Roller all the way! According to my engineering books, rolling friction is always less than sliding friction!!!! Plus, you can swap cams w/o changing lifters! No oil worry too.
Conrad
 
...For years I have posted that out of the hundreds of flat tappet cams we have sold and installed, only 3 had problems, and all the owners used synthetic oil.

When a flat tappet cam kit is installed, run in, and maintained properly it will be fine as there are some engines with over 200K miles still running. :)

Nick,

Would you mind explaining your recommended break in & proper maintenance of a typical hydraulic flat tappet camshaft?

Thank you
~JM~
 
sorry to pound this to death but does a roller not also offer a faster ramp opening the valves there by enhancing performance? Maybe not enough to be noticed but every little bit helps when trying to maximize what you have especially with the small cams or applications use.
 
HelloBozos said:
Correct, it's steam rolling the oil layer -vs- hydrolic pressing,30 mile's plus Hwy trips will do it's toll

Yeah right. Just about every production car made since the late 80's uses roller lifters. Idk where you get you info from. It's like Internet snake oil. Great comparison btw. Hydraulic pressing and a steam roller. Lol
 
Yeah right. Just about every production car made since the late 80's uses roller lifters. Idk where you get you info from. It's like Internet snake oil. Great comparison btw. Hydraulic pressing and a steam roller. Lol

Need more spring rate for roller,hince more viscosity break down..oil's have changed since 80's too,(Took all the lead out)Why they Are rollers now an use 40 weight vs 30 weight of the 80's.. (History lesson complete)
 
Nick,

Would you mind explaining your recommended break in & proper maintenance of a typical hydraulic flat tappet camshaft?

Thank you
~JM~

have one of nicks flat tappets in my car and its been running strong. i might be going roller soon just because
 
Right off the Lunati site.
Friction

Sliding frictional forces are higher than rolling frictional forces. Therefore, a roller cam takes less horsepower to turn and generally does not wear out as quickly. An added benefit is that roller tappets do not require replacement when changing cams. And, if "pop-up" solid roller tappets are used (such as P/N 72400LUN), the camshaft can be swapped without removing the intake manifold.
FlatVsRollerChart.gif


Profile

If a cam profile has more "area under the curve," it has the potential to make more power. Roller profiles can be more "aggressive" and accelerate the tappet more than a flat tappet profile.

Flat tappet profiles can only be shaped up to the point where the tappet "digs into" the profile. Roller tappet profiles are not limited by this condition-so much that even "inverted radius" profiles are possible.

This benefits engine performance in two ways: more tappet lift can be achieved without the added duration that would normally be required to "ramp up" a flat tappet to the added lift-making the lift curve more "pointy"; the lift curve can be made "broader" without increasing lift. Of course, both of these benefits can be combined to create a profile that can easily outperform flat tappet cams.



FlatAndRollerProfile.gif


As for the oil weight all new cars seem to be running lighter weight oils like 5w30 they are all factory rollers.
 
HelloBozos said:
Need more spring rate for roller,hince more viscosity break down..oil's have changed since 80's too,(Took all the lead out)Why they Are rollers now an use 40 weight vs 30 weight of the 80's.. (History lesson complete)

Wrong again. A lot of manufacturers spec 20w these days. Oil change intervals have been extended and lower viscosity oils used and they are all roller engines. You don't know jack about oils or valvetrains.
 
I promised myself I would stay out of this thread, but some of the comments here are forcing my hand.

First, my career has mostly been in valve train and bearings. I am one of the guys in the automotive industry who designs those little bearings that go onto roller lifters. I've been closely or loosely associated with OEM valve train design for most of my 16 year engineering career. So, I at least have a little bit of a clue what I'm talking about.

There are two main reasons why a roller cam is "better" than a flat tappet cam...

1. A roller cam and lifters will have lower overall friction than a comparable flat tappet cam.
2. A roller cam can allow higher acceleration rates, meaning it can open the valve and close the valve more quickly, than a flat tappet cam.

Regarding Item 1: rolling friction is lower than sliding friction, period. Yes, roller cams often need stiffer valve springs than flat tappet cams because of their higher accelerations. This does not necessarily mean that the roller cam produces more friction. It takes more force to open the valve, indeed. However, when the valve is closing, that same valve spring is now pushing on the cam in the "good" direction and helping it rotate. So, whatever work is done to open the valve is recovered when the valve is closing. All the while, the rolling contact is generating much less friction than a sliding tappet would generate. As a side bonus, rolling contact offers much less wear than sliding contact, so wiped-out lobes are almost a thing of the past (even with today's crappy engine oil).

Regarding Item 2: Because of the sliding contact, a flat tappet cam is limited in the shape it can have. The cam's radius of curvature must remain positive and large to keep the contact stress low, and the radius of curvature can never go negative. With rolling contact, the radius of curvature can be much smaller, and negative radius of curvature can be used. If you look at many modern automotive cams, there are portions with negative radius of curvature on the flanks of the cam - this generates high accelerations and offers more area-under-the-lift-curve than flat tappet cams can offer. This, in turn, offers more performance for the same amount of valve lift as a comparable flat-tappet cam.

For the above reasons, most modern engines run roller cams. Believe me, it would be nearly impossible for the modern GM small blocks to make 400+ hp and pass emissions tests without the benefits of a roller cam. Some manufacturers still run flat tappets - the Hyundai and Ford 4-cylinder DOCH engines come to mind - they have a cam directly acting on a flat tappet bucket lifter. The primary reason they do this in some DOHC engines is to keep the valve train (the stuff that moves, anyway) as light and small as possible. This helps the engine to reach high RPM's, provides more room in the head for the ports, and makes the cylinder head assembly smaller so it packages under the hood better. These are just the basics, there is a lot more to valve train design than what I typed here, but you should get the idea.

Having said all of this, I am still running the stock flat-tappet cam in my engine. I will probably keep running it until it either wears out or I get a big desire to run much faster than I am now. If/when the time comes to replace the cam, I will put a roller cam in there, no question, for all of the reasons I stated above. That's not to say that flat tappet cams are terrible and don't work - they do. But, my experience tells me that a properly designed roller cam will generally outperform a comparable flat tappet cam in most applications.

Take this for what you will. It's always your money, so it's your choice what to do with your engine.

Good Luck,
 
HelloBozos said:
LOL...you already said your scared!...My standing start to 1 mile offer still stands!!! Will see who's car more duriable 8^)

You a dumb mofo. You inglish is so po It really funny
 
I promised myself I would stay out of this thread, but some of the comments here are forcing my hand.

First, my career has mostly been in valve train and bearings. I am one of the guys in the automotive industry who designs those little bearings that go onto roller lifters. I've been closely or loosely associated with OEM valve train design for most of my 16 year engineering career. So, I at least have a little bit of a clue what I'm talking about.

There are two main reasons why a roller cam is "better" than a flat tappet cam...

1. A roller cam and lifters will have lower overall friction than a comparable flat tappet cam.
2. A roller cam can allow higher acceleration rates, meaning it can open the valve and close the valve more quickly, than a flat tappet cam.

Regarding Item 1: rolling friction is lower than sliding friction, period. Yes, roller cams often need stiffer valve springs than flat tappet cams because of their higher accelerations. This does not necessarily mean that the roller cam produces more friction. It takes more force to open the valve, indeed. However, when the valve is closing, that same valve spring is now pushing on the cam in the "good" direction and helping it rotate. So, whatever work is done to open the valve is recovered when the valve is closing. All the while, the rolling contact is generating much less friction than a sliding tappet would generate. As a side bonus, rolling contact offers much less wear than sliding contact, so wiped-out lobes are almost a thing of the past (even with today's crappy engine oil).

Regarding Item 2: Because of the sliding contact, a flat tappet cam is limited in the shape it can have. The cam's radius of curvature must remain positive and large to keep the contact stress low, and the radius of curvature can never go negative. With rolling contact, the radius of curvature can be much smaller, and negative radius of curvature can be used. If you look at many modern automotive cams, there are portions with negative radius of curvature on the flanks of the cam - this generates high accelerations and offers more area-under-the-lift-curve than flat tappet cams can offer. This, in turn, offers more performance for the same amount of valve lift as a comparable flat-tappet cam.

For the above reasons, most modern engines run roller cams. Believe me, it would be nearly impossible for the modern GM small blocks to make 400+ hp and pass emissions tests without the benefits of a roller cam. Some manufacturers still run flat tappets - the Hyundai and Ford 4-cylinder DOCH engines come to mind - they have a cam directly acting on a flat tappet bucket lifter. The primary reason they do this in some DOHC engines is to keep the valve train (the stuff that moves, anyway) as light and small as possible. This helps the engine to reach high RPM's, provides more room in the head for the ports, and makes the cylinder head assembly smaller so it packages under the hood better. These are just the basics, there is a lot more to valve train design than what I typed here, but you should get the idea.

Having said all of this, I am still running the stock flat-tappet cam in my engine. I will probably keep running it until it either wears out or I get a big desire to run much faster than I am now. If/when the time comes to replace the cam, I will put a roller cam in there, no question, for all of the reasons I stated above. That's not to say that flat tappet cams are terrible and don't work - they do. But, my experience tells me that a properly designed roller cam will generally outperform a comparable flat tappet cam in most applications.

Take this for what you will. It's always your money, so it's your choice what to do with your engine.

Good Luck,

Thanks for the very informative post.
I very much appreciate when people share their professional opinions.
There can be a lot of voodoo in making a Buick go fast.
One argument that can't be made is that a flat tappet cam is better than a roller in anything other than price.
I lost 3 cams in my old TSM set up before going to a roller.
In my case I had a block where the lifter bores were a little off.
The HR solved the failure problem and seemed to rev quicker and higher.
Unfortunately I don't have doccumented proof of the later.
 
Top