GNX rear suspension good for handleing? &

[cutluse231]

Guys in light of that new NASCAR styled rear truck suspension for A-Bodies that is in the latest issue of CAR CRAFT.

Here's a link to HotRods to Hell 's website the company who makes those kits.
http://www.hotrodstohell.net/truckarm/index.htm

Just wanted to know since the GNX's rear suspension is similar would it work just the same?

I've seen the one's produced in aftermarket form from Kirban's, and wondered if it would be a good Idea to go that route, since that haven't made a NASCAR styled one for a G-body yet.

I do plan on taking my Regal to some of those Solo Course races, and I want it to handle well, along with all the other normal G-body Suspension mods would this be a good addition, or bad Idea

Thanks?

 

[UNGN]

Those are pretty cool, but the obvious drawback is it mounts right where the exhaust system would mount....Not exactly the hot set-up for the street. Now if you had sidepipes or just a big dump....

 

[GNVAIR]

I emailed them last night to see what they had for G bodies.
This is the response:

From: "Sales" <sales@hotrodstohell.net> | This is Spam | Add to Address Book
To: "Lee J" <the_dude_nj@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Truck arm suspension for 78-88 A/G bodies
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:21:25 -0800




Hi Lee ,we do have a kit for the metrics,its 1695.00 same as our other
kits.
Steve

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by cutluse231

Just wanted to know since the GNX's rear suspension is similar would it work just the same?

Similiar?.
Not really as far as suspension goes.
Get a copy of Dave Morgans book Doorslammers, and Herb Adams Book Race car engineering. Both are very informative.

The NASCAR setup applies about 1/2 as much torque to the body to plan the rear tires. Not too bad at Talledaga, Daytona. On the road courses, since they are all limited to the same setup the racing is fair. Put a car with just about any other rear suspension and the same in all other respects, and the NASCAR would be outclassed.

After all it was from a mid 60s truck suspension.

 

[cutluse231]

So now that the suspension is rulled out, The NASCAR one, will,can or is the GNX suspension a Good handling upgrade?

I know the lauching capabilities of the GNX suspension are great, but as Bruce stated any car could handle a solo corse if done right, so would it benificial to go to a GNX or stick with the usual G-body suspension mods?

ie...b-body spindles, tubular upper and lowers , on the front a rear and poly bushings, heavy sway bars, custome springs a shocks, and big meats?

Again thanks

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by cutluse231
So now that the suspension is rulled out, The NASCAR one, will,can or is the GNX suspension a Good handling upgrade?

I know the lauching capabilities of the GNX suspension are great, but as Bruce stated any car could handle a solo corse if done right, so would it benificial to go to a GNX or stick with the usual G-body suspension mods?

ie...b-body spindles, tubular upper and lowers , on the front a rear and poly bushings, heavy sway bars, custome springs a shocks, and big meats?

As I see it the G Bod rear suspension all goes into a bind, GNX or GN when doing heavy corner work. On a real smooth track the only advantage is going to be at launch. But, with the stiff springs bars and shocks, neither setup is going to be great at that anyway.

Bumpsteer needs menioning as a FWIW, but again with stiff springs they min it.

If you can do anything you want on the rear suspension then investigate a Reese Bar Bar rear suspenion as designed by Herb Adams and shown in his book I mentioned.

And don't forget the Body Bushings.

I run Bilsteins, short stiff springs, ATR rear bar, 12" front discs, 11 rear discs, all the braces, and poly body bushings. Handles well above the fair level in my book.

 

[UNGN]

Originally posted by cutluse231
So now that the suspension is rulled out, The NASCAR one, will,can or is the GNX suspension a Good handling upgrade?

I know the lauching capabilities of the GNX suspension are great, but as Bruce stated any car could handle a solo corse if done right, so would it benificial to go to a GNX or stick with the usual G-body suspension mods?

ie...b-body spindles, tubular upper and lowers , on the front a rear and poly bushings, heavy sway bars, custome springs a shocks, and big meats?

Again thanks

Do the typical handling upgrades and a g-body is going to have a tough time keeping up with a honda on a tight autocross course. But, on something like an open track event, the honda probably won't even get close enough to tell its a buick.

 

[GNocide]

ask someone in a gnx or ride in one.corners great, doesnt even feel like a regal. its way advanced. lets not forget everyday handling,no rattles over bumps and smoother potholes, tighter car , drag traction on street tires. value.

 

[Two Lane]

WELCOME TO THE BOARD!

gnocide,

Did you have Kirban's GNX suspension installed in your car?

If so, tell us how it went...how many $$, who did swap, before & after comparisons...etcetera...what's the biggest differences from stock to GNX? How long you had it/miles driven with it?

Faster at the track? Any other upgrades?

Sounds like you've got a nice car!

TIA!!

 

[Two Lane]

Thanks for the great info (X2).

 

[GNocide]

yes i do. its re-engineered by richard clark. kirban has exclusives to it and so did trey crease at 0-to 60 performance. cost about 1800. at kirbans open house i had the privilage of helping gene westbrook (a good freind) install treys while richard talked. mine was put on in burlington ,nc at richards grand national heaven.gene and richard did the lining up and my father welded it . it took about 3 hours maybe . the cover stays on permanent. it has a magnetic drain plug which is so nice now. no upper control arms or pinnion snubber or air bag is used.60 foots are 1.7-.16 realisticly. gene has a 1.70 launching with the tranbrake at about 20 lbs. i have currenty the only t-top gn with this setup world wide untill someone else buys one.contrary to popular belief a t-top car can seriously benifit.even without body bushings the car was dramatcly changed . no more rattles or t-top cracking. tight ,real tight like it accually corners now not even lowered. im in pa now ,roads suck, car is very forgiving. s-curves are so fun- every day driving is funner.if you ever ride in a gnx its so different. sorry so long. i rate it my #1 upgrade even more than a bigger turbo.youll need a true gnx exhaust to clear the crossmember that the ladderbar ties into.all parts will interchange with oem gnx.

 

[GNocide]

sorry about the double ,i axed it. i guess my cpu skillz are the monte ss of the board.

 

[Matt]

Originally posted by gnocide
yes i do. its re-engineered by richard clark. kirban has exclusives to it and so did trey crease at 0-to 60 performance. cost about 1800. at kirbans open house i had the privilage of helping gene westbrook (a good freind) install treys while richard talked. mine was put on in burlington ,nc at richards grand national heaven.gene and richard did the lining up and my father welded it . it took about 3 hours maybe . the cover stays on permanent. it has a magnetic drain plug which is so nice now. no upper control arms or pinnion snubber or air bag is used.60 foots are 1.7-.16 realisticly. gene has a 1.70 launching with the tranbrake at about 20 lbs. i have currenty the only t-top gn with this setup world wide untill someone else buys one.contrary to popular belief a t-top car can seriously benifit.even without body bushings the car was dramatcly changed . no more rattles or t-top cracking. tight ,real tight like it accually corners now not even lowered. im in pa now ,roads suck, car is very forgiving. s-curves are so fun- every day driving is funner.if you ever ride in a gnx its so different. sorry so long. i rate it my #1 upgrade even more than a bigger turbo.youll need a true gnx exhaust to clear the crossmember that the ladderbar ties into.all parts will interchange with oem gnx.

So this is the John? I remember hearing that handle too.

Gene cut a mid-high 1.5 atleast once though. I think he has some replacement springs and that's it. He's still got bags in there, but they're never inflated.

 

[GNocide]

yes it is. i usually read the board . 3 different boards nighty. whats up matt? piss anyone off lately?

 

[Matt]

Originally posted by gnocide
yes it is. i usually read the board . 3 different boards nighty. whats up matt? piss anyone off lately?

Nah. I'm not in that business.

I think I remember someone saying you read up on some of the boards. Maybe it was Matt. The next time you talk to him ask him about "Little Performance." He'll know what you mean. Might not think it's too funny though.

 

[motorhead]

Originally posted by GNVAIR
Hi Lee ,we do have a kit for the metrics,its 1695.00 same as our other kits.

Thanks Lee.

It sounds a bit fishy to me that they would harp on the factory for running soft rubber bushing to reduce bind in the 4 link... yet they will promote soft rubber bushings in their own system.

Couldn't they effectively run a higher durometer rubber bushing to take better advantage of the system? I wonder just how much lateral deflection is built into this HRTH system?

 

[cutluse231]

I guess I better jump back in on this.... (been awhile).

I did ask for and receive some info from Kirbans on the GNX suspension, and a story of one installed.... GNOCIDE was that about your GN?

The reason for asking about this is I'm planning on using a 86 GN frame under my 82 Regal ( I think my 82's is bad do to lots of the front sheetmettal and bumper being replace prior to me buying the car), and wanted to do the mods to it before the swapping begins.

I'm currently running in my Regal a Buick 455 Big Block and a 2004R and GN 8.5 3:42 posi out back, I want it to handle well with that extra weight.
(the front suspension is just bushing upgrades only and a GN front sway bar and steering box)

I'm not looking to do the solo cross stuff every day just when comes up near me , I want to be able to get in and be competitive, and enjoy driving it without my teeth getting jarred out, and on the occasion wring it out at the drag strip.

I do have to agree with GNOCIDE the exhaust has to be changed to run the GNX suspension.
I'm currently running ATR PIT BULL mufflers and ATR's Stainless Steel tailpipes.
I did talk to someone at Kirbans and said at least the right side of the exhaust has to be changed, header pipe and tail pipe.

So actually still in the desciding and planning stages, but seeing GNOCIDE's info here on the board is very helpful.

Thanks

 

[GNVAIR]

Chris,
You will find that a vast majority of the guys with g bodies are running stock style rear suspensions with minimal upgrades.
I personally have boxed all 4 control arms and replaced all 8 bushings with the 1LE f body bushings. This alone made an enormous improvement in maintaining control of the rear suspension. Other additions were Moog 5651 (if I remember correctly) and Bilstein shocks. My car is strictly a street car, but I will tell you that I have no problem taking jug handles and highway ramps at 70 mph.
You have to remember that the front and rear suspensions have to work together. IMHO, I cant see any advantage of the GNX rear suspension. Its a nice looking set up, but many of us can be quite competitive in Autocross events and drag racing with the factory 4 link. My front end has b body spindles, GW uca's, Moog 5660 springs and Bilstein shocks as well as GW Del A Lum bushings. I still use the factory sway bars.
Your best bet is to talk to the Monte SS guys and see what they are doing. If you are running a Buick 455, then you have to realize that your engine weighs about the same as a small block Chevrolet. Some people think that because the displacement of the Buick is large that it will weigh as much as a big block Chevrolet. This simply isnt the car. You can performan the same modifications as I did to mine with the sole exceptions being higher rate springs (since my V6 weighs much less than your V8) and exceed the results you would have if you spent the $2000+ on the GNX rear suspension.

 

[GNocide]

My car was one of the GNX rears. Its not for everybody, but more then the fortunate 547 can get in on the dynamics of a system that was clearly designed for the overall drivabillity ,handling and traction of the GN. Two Lane had ask me about it and i told him originally to check with the GNX owners or ride in one for a fair opinion. That leaves you with less then, lets say 600 people who really know what the advantages are . Sure most people can modify or borrow suspension componets and drag or road race just fine at a third less $ .I even ask a known 10sec racer/vender who installed one for a customer if he liked it .He said "i can 1/4 just as fast for 1/2 the money. Empty response because he didnt know either or maybe cause he doesnt make any $ on the sale of the kit . I got mine to drive on it. Here is one of the most rarest of all options GNX finally produced exactly to spec superior to all gns but in limited supply.ADVANTAGE GNX.

 

[blackbuick87]

gnocide are those 60' times you mentioned and regular street tires? (not DR's)