Header removal questions

[SyHopeful]

So I'm going to be joining the ranks of TB owners who've had to weld up their factory headers. Just wanted to know if anybody here has tips or tricks to removing them? I really just need the driver's side off, but I might as well pull the passenger side and check it too.

I'm also a little worried about snapping a bolt off in the head. I'm gonna soak them in PB overnight before I tackle it.

So yeah guys, any tricks or advice you'd like to pass my way?

 

[stickybones]

I've only done the drivers side...twice, but it ain't difficult. The second time around I had mine off in 1 hour (and that includes jacking up the car) and back on in 1.5 hrs. And I work very slow with my car. I found no need to remove the crossover pipe.

Not really a tip or trick...it's probably obvious...but taking the wheel off and going thru the wheel well to get at some of the bolts helps tremendously.

The biggest PITA is getting the dipstick tube lined up right with the stud it attaches to. I ended up bending the attachment tab and drilling a new hole in it to get it back on the stud.

Your call, but you may want to use gaskets when putting them back on. I used Felpro 1400s.

When reattaching the header to the crossover pipe, don't go gorilla monsoon on the bolts. You want them tight, but if you go TOO tight, you may end up elongating the opening which may end up leaking soon in the future.

I used never seize on the bolts when I put it all back together. Like I said, I had to do mine twice already. So if you have to take it apart again someday, the never sieze just may save your knuckles.

If I were you, unless you're sure the passenger side is leaking, leave it alone. Don't fix what isn't broken.

 

[SyHopeful]

hmm...thanks for the advice, I think I will leave the passenger side in!

Did you pull the header out from the bottom or the top? I'm not seeing much clearance coming out the top, with the power steering pump and steering column kind of in the way.

Would it be a bad thing if I didn't run a gasket?

 

[stickybones]

I dropped mine out the bottom. I even got it past the crossover pipe that way. Of course it takes a little twisting and turning to get it down, but it'll drop out.

Can't answer the gasket question. It's best to not use one if your surfaces are flat and true. But if the header flange is warped a little bit, you might end up with leaks.

If I were you I wouldn't chance it. I'd put a gasket on it. That's what I did with mine.

 

[VinsGN]

I’ve removed my drive side a couple of times also. Dropped it out the bottom, I did though remove the cross pipe. As stated above also I used the Felpro gaskets, anti seized on my bolts but just snugged them down, no leaks.

As for the dip stick I had no problems, that may be just luck on my part. I did put a little gasket sealer around the mating surface with the block to stop any weeping on the side of the block. Just let the sealer set overnight prior to firing up.

 

[Drop Top]

I just did mine a few weekends ago. I had to do both sides. I didn't use any gaskets. But I did put on new donuts. There dosen't seem to be any leaks. When I welded them up. I clamped them down flat on a welding table so they wouldn't worp. Then let them cool by themselves. I am a ferm bleaver in using anti-seize on all bolts. Sence I had it all torn down, I went ahead and ported the elbow. If your welding them up yourself. Rember that they are stainless and you need to use stainless rod on them. Or you'll be having more problems. It took the better part of the day to do everthing. But what a differance it made in the performance. It went from a compleat dog on the bottom end. To a tire burner. Not to mention it sounds much better.

 

[SyHopeful]

How bad were the cracks in yours? I can only see and hear one on the driver's side. It doesn't look that bad but it's obviously leaking.

I have a buddy that welds for a living, so I think I'll be covered I tried my hand at old-school oxyacetelyne and rod welding last week. I missed the stack-of-dimes but I got spread-of-peanut-butter.

Thanks very much for the help guys, I really appreciate it!

 

[Phatman]

Just don't forget to bolt them to an old head or something similar so the flange don't distort...

 

[Drop Top]

The crack on the passanger side was cracked all the way around on that expantion tipe area inbetween the front two cylenders.. The drivers aide was cracked where the tube from the back cylender conects the rest of the header. There was a piece missing abount the size of an eraser from a pencel.
I really should buy a tig but just have a hard time coming up with that much cash. I've been welding and doing body work with the same torch for a very long time and It comes easy to me. When and if I need a tig I go about a 1/2 mile from my shop and use my buddy's. I'll get one wnen I find a used one.

 

[turbodave231]

Some guys Mig weld em up and claim they hold.

Tig welding is the best repair. You'll need a stainless rod (309 preferred) to weld it correctly. The factory header were made out of a low grade 409 stainless. I glass bead the area and stopdrill the cracks so they won't continue to spread. I like to weld a reinforcement between the 3 and 5 tubes.



Dave

 

[SyHopeful]

Originally posted by turbodave231
Some guys Mig weld em up and claim they hold.

Tig welding is the best repair. You'll need a stainless rod (309 preferred) to weld it correctly. The factory header were made out of a low grade 409 stainless. I glass bead the area and stopdrill the cracks so they won't continue to spread. I like to weld a reinforcement between the 3 and 5 tubes.

Dave

I'll pass that along to my welding buddy, thanks

So nobody had issues with breaking off a bolt in the head?

 

[tom h]

Originally posted by SyHopeful
So nobody had issues with breaking off a bolt in the head?

I didn't.
Soak w/ PB Blaster or Liquid Wrench.
Before reinstalling, chase threads in cyl head if necessary so bolts turn easily.
Apply nickel-based antiseize on bolts when reinstalling.

 

[SyHopeful]

Originally posted by tom h
I didn't.

Lucky Californians and your no rust

Thanks for the advice I ordered my Fel-Pros today, soooo as soon as those get in I'm going for it!

 

[randys100]

Lucky Californians and your no rust

Thanks for the advice I ordered my Fel-Pros today, soooo as soon as those get in I'm going for it!

Where can I get the Fel-Pros header gasket? I have to fix my driver's side header very soon.

Thanks,
Randy

 

[SyHopeful]

I'm pretty sure I got mine from summitracing.com. Only around $12 for the pair, I believe. Good luck

 

[VadersV6]

Tighten the bottom bolts first. The bottom area of the header flange tends to stay straight, and the top area is what warps. If you tighten the bottom first, you'll put less stress on the welds since you wont be tweaking the flange as bad. Lightly sand the surfaces and use black bearing grease instead of any sealer or gaskets. The grease turns to carbon and seals great. I did this a couple months ago and it sealed perfectly. Dont bother pulling the crossover. No need. I also put some of that grease on the collector to help seal.

 

[Ormand]

The factory header were made out of a low grade 409 stainless

"Low grade" relative to what? Were there higher grades of 409 available, but GM got theirs at the Megalowmart? 409 is ferritic stainless- it is cheaper than the 300 series alloys, which contain nickel. But it also has much lower thermal expansion, so it is under less stress when it is bolted to a cast iron hear, then heated up. There are many designers/engineers who would choose a 400 series over a 300 series for most any high temp application, including the headers on turbo Buicks. But most of them would not have the joints as bad as those on our cars, and most would have higher quality welding than that which came from the factory.

 

[GN Bob]

SyHopeful,

I have never found anything as good as Aerokroil for loosening rusted bolts. It completely dissolves and breaks down rust. I believe it is only available direct from the factory. You can probably find it easily with a net search.

As far as other thoughts, has anyone ever tried using a flexible metal bellows welded into the crossover pipe to prevent the expansion force of the crossover from re-cracking the drivers side header ? It looks like as the crossover gets longer when it heats up, it is forcing the drivers side header pipes apart right at the weld. I know a bellows does not have a smooth I.D. but I'm just curious if anyone has tried it.

Bob