Here I go again....PCV
- Thread starter opzWE4
- Start date
I did that once upon a time, I cut a long narrow slot in the valley pan between the turbo oil return and the PCV. This was before I was aware of this problem (PCV sucking up oil), so I have no idea if it helped or not! I was just trying to help oil drainback at the time. Didn't bother with it the next time around... I do think I get more oil in the intake now than I did then, but this could all be in my mind too, no way to really tell.
I was thinking that next time I'm in there I would cut a couple of ~1" long slits in the valley pan on either side of the oil return and bend up the resulting tab. This would block the oil return from the valley pan and force it to go down. It would also leave plenty of open area, it would not block the return in any way. Just redirect it some.
I wonder if people with this problem have upgraded their oil systems significantly? I know I have... I've got the PT&E turbo saver and such, and run pretty good oil pressures, like 70 psi at WOT. I just got Corky Bell's book and noticed that he says turbos don't really need that much oil. He mentioned putting a 0.060" restrictor in the oil feed line, and says that a turbo only needs 25 psi at full load. I know my turbo gets lot more flow and pressure than that! And a lot more than stock for that matter. I wonder if this increased oil rate coming back from the turbo is part of the problem.
John Estill
I was thinking that next time I'm in there I would cut a couple of ~1" long slits in the valley pan on either side of the oil return and bend up the resulting tab. This would block the oil return from the valley pan and force it to go down. It would also leave plenty of open area, it would not block the return in any way. Just redirect it some.
I wonder if people with this problem have upgraded their oil systems significantly? I know I have... I've got the PT&E turbo saver and such, and run pretty good oil pressures, like 70 psi at WOT. I just got Corky Bell's book and noticed that he says turbos don't really need that much oil. He mentioned putting a 0.060" restrictor in the oil feed line, and says that a turbo only needs 25 psi at full load. I know my turbo gets lot more flow and pressure than that! And a lot more than stock for that matter. I wonder if this increased oil rate coming back from the turbo is part of the problem.
John Estill
JDEstill, the mod to the valley pan in front of the oil return is pretty much what I did. I cut it, bent it up, and thought that would redirect the oil down, but it must be splashing over it. Seems like there's alot of oil pressure coming down that return line, to make oil get ontop of the pan like it does.
I think I'm going to try a combination of my pipe idea, and knocking a hole in the pan below the pcv. I went to Lowe's this morning and picked up some stuff, so I'll see what I can build today.
Bill, I should have mine ready by today, but with all the snow on the ground here, and still coming down, who know's when I'm going to get to test my stuff. Let me know how it works.
I think I'm going to try a combination of my pipe idea, and knocking a hole in the pan below the pcv. I went to Lowe's this morning and picked up some stuff, so I'll see what I can build today.
Bill, I should have mine ready by today, but with all the snow on the ground here, and still coming down, who know's when I'm going to get to test my stuff. Let me know how it works.
Drewster
Wish I Had A Clone. AKA Andrew Youlio
- Joined
- May 31, 2001
BING!
opzWE4----i have the same problem real bad also and it drives me nuts.
why not just file 1/8th to 3/16ths off of the PCV on the intake side! a quicker way to for the same idea i think.
ya just need to figure out how to keep the same grab on the gromet. maybe rebending it after filling
im not exactly sure what the intake pan material and thickness is but being that people cut it, i guess it is thin
someone mentioned punching a hole in the pan below the PCV. what did you do? just put a punch thru the PCV hole and wack away? if ya did, now there may be a nice area for accumulation. maybe if there was a little "hill" in the pan (below the PCV) then all the oil would run around the hill and stay away from the PCV.
if this could work maybe some one can think of how to make the "hill" with the intake on. like a strong magnet thru the grommet hole and then yank on it to lift and bend the gasket pan a little. or a hook and a yank if the pan material is aluminum
oh man to much yankin
another wacked out idea is if we ran the turbo return oil to the oil pan (like some aftermarket blowers do) then the oil return wouldnt be running under the PCV any more.
i have been trying to make a good PCV oil filter. (no luck, to much oil) maybe i'll concentrate on prevention instead.
im just spewing ideas.
i want my octane back!
Drewster
opzWE4----i have the same problem real bad also and it drives me nuts.
why not just file 1/8th to 3/16ths off of the PCV on the intake side! a quicker way to for the same idea i think.
ya just need to figure out how to keep the same grab on the gromet. maybe rebending it after filling
im not exactly sure what the intake pan material and thickness is but being that people cut it, i guess it is thin
someone mentioned punching a hole in the pan below the PCV. what did you do? just put a punch thru the PCV hole and wack away? if ya did, now there may be a nice area for accumulation. maybe if there was a little "hill" in the pan (below the PCV) then all the oil would run around the hill and stay away from the PCV.
if this could work maybe some one can think of how to make the "hill" with the intake on. like a strong magnet thru the grommet hole and then yank on it to lift and bend the gasket pan a little. or a hook and a yank if the pan material is aluminum
oh man to much yankin
another wacked out idea is if we ran the turbo return oil to the oil pan (like some aftermarket blowers do) then the oil return wouldnt be running under the PCV any more.
i have been trying to make a good PCV oil filter. (no luck, to much oil) maybe i'll concentrate on prevention instead.
im just spewing ideas.
i want my octane back!
Drewster
Are we sure its oil, and not the gasoline vapors "distilling" during engine off hot soak? I've seen some nasty intakes from short trip driving, that you could swear was oil, but it was the varnish or whatever comes out of gasoline.
I've been fighting this problem for almost 3 years. I stopped driving my car because of it.
The problem i have is smoke on start up and then a light but steady stream of smoke at idle. This only happened after rebuilding the engine, go figure. Here is what i have tried.
New AC delco PCV
PCV Check valve
Check compression
Added valve cover breathers
Added valve guide seals to exhaust valves
Checked intake valve guide seals- they are fine
replaced intake gasket
checked turbo, its new, no oil leaks
checked up pipe, no oil
The only other thing i could think to try was to lower the oil pressure. Before i rebuilt the engine it had 10 psi at idle. After adding the upgrade front cover i now have 20-25 psi at idle. I haven't tried it yet.
Also when i pull the dog house off there is a thin coat of oil on the inside of the dog house and the intake. I also had the egr tunnel ground down and welded close. I really think that oil is getting sucked in through the PCV valve. I haven't check this page in a long time. The idea that the oil return line is blowing the oil on top of the valley pan and getting sucked into the PCV is a good thought. I'll have to check that.
The problem i have is smoke on start up and then a light but steady stream of smoke at idle. This only happened after rebuilding the engine, go figure. Here is what i have tried.
New AC delco PCV
PCV Check valve
Check compression
Added valve cover breathers
Added valve guide seals to exhaust valves
Checked intake valve guide seals- they are fine
replaced intake gasket
checked turbo, its new, no oil leaks
checked up pipe, no oil
The only other thing i could think to try was to lower the oil pressure. Before i rebuilt the engine it had 10 psi at idle. After adding the upgrade front cover i now have 20-25 psi at idle. I haven't tried it yet.
Also when i pull the dog house off there is a thin coat of oil on the inside of the dog house and the intake. I also had the egr tunnel ground down and welded close. I really think that oil is getting sucked in through the PCV valve. I haven't check this page in a long time. The idea that the oil return line is blowing the oil on top of the valley pan and getting sucked into the PCV is a good thought. I'll have to check that.
Drewster
Wish I Had A Clone. AKA Andrew Youlio
- Joined
- May 31, 2001
how about a oil pressure regulator on the turbo oil feed line? keep it below 20psi as recommended in previous post.
maybe this is why we all have had problems after a engine rebuild because we increase over all oil pressure.
more brain farts
drew
maybe this is why we all have had problems after a engine rebuild because we increase over all oil pressure.
more brain farts
drew
I was drinking a pop through a straw today. The straw had a crack in it and I could hardly get any liquid through the straw. If we apply this to the pvc system, the end of the pcv valve would have to be submered in oil to draw it into the line. Any slight gap would require a huge vacuum to draw it into the line. This is at atmopheric conditions. If the crankcase is pressurized, I would think it would be eaiser to draw oil through the pvc. Maybe the problem is too much pressure in the crankcase.
Drewster
Wish I Had A Clone. AKA Andrew Youlio
- Joined
- May 31, 2001
pressurized crankcase is another possibility but what is the pressure difference between the valve cover breathers and the intake manifold. i would hope it is the same, if not i have a intake gasket leak.
maybe the lower half of the motor gets pressure under boost, above the intake gasket pan stays at atmospheric, then all the oil from the turbo wont run thru the oil return passage in the gasket pan,(higher pressure will run from the block up to the top of the pan) and then there is a nice pool of oil to get sucked up when we come out of boost and return to vacuum.
maybe we should try using a aftermarket PCV valve which has "leak by" and then the upper half of the motor will pressurize and help squirt turbo oil to the lower half of the motor. easy enough to try.
maybe i only have time to write BB posts and not enough time to try stuff out.
why does the intake gasket pan even have to be there? to keep the hot turbo return oil off of the lifters?
why
why!
why!!
bleh-
maybe the lower half of the motor gets pressure under boost, above the intake gasket pan stays at atmospheric, then all the oil from the turbo wont run thru the oil return passage in the gasket pan,(higher pressure will run from the block up to the top of the pan) and then there is a nice pool of oil to get sucked up when we come out of boost and return to vacuum.
maybe we should try using a aftermarket PCV valve which has "leak by" and then the upper half of the motor will pressurize and help squirt turbo oil to the lower half of the motor. easy enough to try.
maybe i only have time to write BB posts and not enough time to try stuff out.
why does the intake gasket pan even have to be there? to keep the hot turbo return oil off of the lifters?
why
why!
why!!
bleh-
First of all, DON'T RESTRICT THE FEED LINE!!! When all our cars were new from Buick none had this problem.Only after mods were done or rebuilds took place did it arise.
The oil comming out of the turbo doesn't resemble oil at all it looks like frothy milk. There is so much air in it it doesn't flow like hot oil, it's realy clingy.
For what ever reason after changes to the motor have been made the fomy oil that does get above the pan is not able to return fast enough and gets sucked up by the PCV.
IMHO the only ways to solve this problem are , remove the PCV "bad idea" keep oil from getting on top of the pan
and or enlarge the slits or make larger returns in the valley pan to allow oil that is getting up there to drain out. No oil on top of the pan ,,,no oil to be sucked up!
Pulling a vacume on the crankcase is a good thing. It not only removes any fumes but helps to keep preasure from building up in the bottomend causing leeks and power loss.
IMO keep the PCV, but keep the oil from collecting under it.
The oil comming out of the turbo doesn't resemble oil at all it looks like frothy milk. There is so much air in it it doesn't flow like hot oil, it's realy clingy.
For what ever reason after changes to the motor have been made the fomy oil that does get above the pan is not able to return fast enough and gets sucked up by the PCV.
IMHO the only ways to solve this problem are , remove the PCV "bad idea" keep oil from getting on top of the pan
and or enlarge the slits or make larger returns in the valley pan to allow oil that is getting up there to drain out. No oil on top of the pan ,,,no oil to be sucked up!
Pulling a vacume on the crankcase is a good thing. It not only removes any fumes but helps to keep preasure from building up in the bottomend causing leeks and power loss.
IMO keep the PCV, but keep the oil from collecting under it.
Exactly!
I'm presuming viscosity and chemical composition of the oil might moderate (not cure) the symptoms somewhat.
I add the excellent Lucas product to the Mobil 1 for precisely the reason you mentioned, and for its propensities for lowered oil-splash & increased "climbing" .
I'm presuming viscosity and chemical composition of the oil might moderate (not cure) the symptoms somewhat.
I add the excellent Lucas product to the Mobil 1 for precisely the reason you mentioned, and for its propensities for lowered oil-splash & increased "climbing" .
