Intercooler Question, Please take a look

[Buick Beginner]

Gentlemen,
May I invite you all to participate in a discussion on intercoolers? I’ve got a stock intercooler and I’m entertaining going to a front mount. There are a few things I’m a little confused over though. A lot of the intercoolers that I’ve seen typically have a core thickness of 3” or thicker. The core is typically about 12” tall and around 20” wide. I’ve looked at quite a few aftermarket units in this category. Now, on the other hand look at the Ford PS I/C, it’s core is only 2” thick, but has a much larger frontal area than say a Spearco or the Kenne Bell Big Boy. With this in mind, are there 2 schools of thought on intercooler design? Say a thinner but larger frontal area over on this side, and a thicker but smaller frontal area group on that side? Could it be that both camps have plenty of information to back up there own points of views? I know that in the past I’ve posted questions concerning a 4 core radiator versus a 3 three core radiator, the information I’ve been able to glean says that a 4 core is too thick. A 3 core is preferred due to the fact that its core is thin enough to flow air through the core effectively. Wouldn’t the same hold true for an intercooler? It seems to me that an intercooler with a core thickness of 4 inches won’t flow the air through the core as effectively as an intercooler with a 2” core, but yet a larger frontal area. So, I guess my question is this: Which front mount intercooler, in theory, is more efficient, the I/C that is 18” by 18” and 2” thick, or the I/C that is 12” by 12” but is 3” thick? If all other factors were the same of course, which would be preferred? Please educate me, thanks for the responses. - BB

 

[Intercooler]

I think you are thinking too much I assume you have a stock turbo seeing the 32 lb. injectors in your sig so the stock intercooler or a big neck is all you need. Regarding the thread, I think the overall amount of cooling capacity is greater with the thicker units because of more mass. Air up in the nose of the car shouldn't be hard to come by and the Ford IC takes work to fit it up. Until you get a 44 or larger turbo..... KISS!

 

[Buick Beginner]

Thanks IC

IC - That's actually kind of funny, my wife says the exact opposite about my thinking! Any other takers on the topic? - BB

 

[copteaser]

my 2 cents....
I installed an intercooler from a 98 Mitsubishi 4 cylinder diesel truck....The darn thing fit almost perfect 2inch thick, 21 inch long, 12inches wide. The only difference was the angle of the inlet/out let. (45 degree angle)I took the i/c to a welder had the moved to a down position and presto.
Then I purchased 2 aluminized 10 foot section pipes and headed to the local muffler shop. The shop bend the pipes to my specs and WALLAA!
It looks great. Many people comment on how good it looks behind the grill.
... just a thought....

 

[Buick Beginner]

Thanks Copteaser

Any others wanna throw their 02 in? - BB

 

[azgn]

your stock car will run just fine with a stock intercooler........an I/C is a bit down the list in the order of go fast parts!

 

[Buick Beginner]

Thanks Woody

But don't I need to start somewhere?

 

[azgn]

of course.....start with enough fuel to max the stock stuff...then traction......when you get there........better turbo, exhaust and then I/C....the stock I/C can be made to perform well with just a cleaning and Dutt neck....in any case, a front mount is not appropriate for a street driven car if you live anywhere it gets warm......a front mount I/C is not where you start........

 

[Wes]

Originally posted by copteaser
my 2 cents....
I installed an intercooler from a 98 Mitsubishi 4 cylinder diesel truck....The darn thing fit almost perfect 2inch thick, 21 inch long, 12inches wide. The only difference was the angle of the inlet/out let. (45 degree angle)I took the i/c to a welder had the moved to a down position and presto.
Then I purchased 2 aluminized 10 foot section pipes and headed to the local muffler shop. The shop bend the pipes to my specs and WALLAA!
It looks great. Many people comment on how good it looks behind the grill.
... just a thought....

how did the bends in the pipe look?....were they smooth or crinkled?

 

[Steve Wood]

I guess you have to start somewhere but I would suggest the 12 second recipe on gnttype.org.

A lot of us believe that a front mount will buy you nothing but headaches until you are in the mid tens based upon comparisons done between oversized stock location intercoolers and front mounts. I suspect that there are a heck of a lot more people talking about the tens than are actually there.

On the other hand, there are a lot of people that just have to be able to say they have a front mount IC and they don't care about the cooling problems, slower spool, compressor surge that may occur.

You can run low 12s on the strip with the stock turbo, injectors, and IC. That translates to 13s on the street but the addition of an alky kit may cut the difference between street and strip if you can hook it up.

 

[Buick Beginner]

Thanks Steve

I guess I'm more interested in intercooler theory perhaps, in regard to frontal cooling area vs. thickness. I'm trying to learn what is proven fact vs. what is sheer opinion. I've got a Ford P/S intercooler sitting in my garage just waiting for something to happen to it. I've also got a Volvo 740 I/C which looks to be an excellent possibilty as well, both would be front mount. BTW I've only got $85.00 total in both of them. I suppose they are more for experimenting than anything else. But both are radically different than say a Keene Bell Big Boy. The KB is thick, and the Ford and Volvo are thin, but wider and taller. Do both work well? Is there a proven winner? - BB
P.S. I will be working on one of the GNType recipes for this summer, but since I've got 2 front mounts I figured what the hey?

 

[GS70350]

Here is my 2 cents on your questions about intercooler frontal area and core thickness, since that is what you were asking about. First of all, dont use the volvo intercooler. it cant support more than 300 hp and the end tanks blow off above 18 psi. In my opinion, a thinner core, with much more frontal area and flow, is better than a thicker core, with less frontal area, and less flow through the core. Thinner cores like that on the ford front mount, flow more air through them, which has a positive effect on their efficiency, and it also allows more air to get to the radiator located behind the intercooler. with a thick core, there is more of a restriction for the air to get through the core, so not as much air can get through it, limiting the amount of heat that is pulled from it. like this, blow air across your finger after you licked it, and it gets cold, because air is passing by it and pulling the heat away as the water evaporates. when you dont blow on your finger, or you dont blow as much air over the finger, the water evaporates slower, and your finger doesnt get as cool, because there is less air moving through it to pull the heat away, which makes sense to me. same with a intercooler. still just my opinion. another thing, is that with the smaller frontal area, it equals less cool air hitting the intercooler face. even with the same total cooling area, by the time the air gets to the back of the intercooler, it may already be pretty hot, and this reduces its effectivness in cooling the air moving through the back of the intercooler. a thin core, large core, gets lots of flow, lots of cool air throughout the core, and doesnt block as much air to the radiator, and may not have as bad of heat soak problems, as a smaller, thicker core.
just my opinion for you. hope that helps

 

[GS70350]

If i were you, id put that ford front mount on there as well. if youve got 85 bucks or less in that sucker, and you buy 100 bucks in hoses and pipes, and your pretty handy, its not a bad job at all. just time. a few hours work, and it will be in there in no time, im currently working on the install, and ill be taking some pictures for all to see. its much better in my opinion than paying 800 dollars for a intercooler than only takes 1 to 2 hours to install, when you can pay 185 and put one in in 8 hours and still alows your radiator enough air to cool OK.

 

[Buick Beginner]

Thanks Jacob

I appreciate the info. - BB

 

[copteaser]

Wez
There was 2 small bends that were almost un noticeable. The muffler shop took his time...looks really good.

 

[J Banning]

See my signature (Ford PS IC).

To date I have no complaints. There's some compressor surge, but not any more than I was seeing when I had an ATR frontmount on the car. I have no doubt that I'll be able to see at least 11.30 with this combo.

-Banning.

 

[Ross L]

No drivability problems here

I have the eastern perf. FM. Temp stays around 170, no surge, no drivability problems what-so-ever! 3 core rad(I think) and stock fan...Also, 95 deg here and very high humidity. I don't know how perf is affected/improved but drivability shouldn't be a issue.

 

[scottyb]

Florida, black car, daily driver? FM now way! Is yours a daily driver? As said before, there's plenty of other places to spend the money, IMO.

 

[KendallF]

Scotty, Florida here, black car, daily driver... and I had a front mount on it for at least two years. It's on Dan Boden's car now, again no real problems. Caveat: this was my home-grown Kenworth IC frontmount, and it mounts low enough to leave most of the radiator uncovered, thus no cooling problems. We've had at least 3 or 4 other local cars with front mounts and no real cooling problems. Heck, I don't know what's going on with those Texas octagenarians' cars!

I just put a PT&E front mount on a car that's over at SpeedCraft along with a BeCool radiator and an ATR fan kit (no, I didn't specify or buy any parts for the car, I'm just trying to help the guy get it together). It'll be interesting to see if it runs cool or not.

On the original question of thicker vs. thinner, I think thinner will probably be better for efficiency, but there's another portion to the IC effectiveness, and that's pressure drop through the core. The pressure drop through the core is proportional to the core's cross sectional area and width, so the skinny wide cores are going to have more pressure drop, which makes the turbo have to work harder to provide a given manifold pressure.

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Simple answere....CAS V4.