Kirbans ZDDP

I just spoke to a GM tech. at the Chevy dealer near my house. He is aware of the ZDP problem and said that on a primarily stock flat tappet cam car, Lucas will be enough to compensate.I will not comment on any on modified because I don't have much experience with that and do not want to add to the confusion.
 
Another thing to think about with this additiive--How do we know if it will harm the chemical composition and thus not allow the particular oil that we mix it with to do its job right? Maybe mixing this additive will harm some particular oils and not others? Im not saying this ZZDPlus stuff is bad, but I dont want it to turn out like Slick50 which causes more harm than good...:confused:

you haven't read anything in this whole thread have you?
unbelievable
 
Another thing to think about with this additiive--How do we know if it will harm the chemical composition and thus not allow the particular oil that we mix it with to do its job right? Maybe mixing this additive will harm some particular oils and not others? Im not saying this ZZDPlus stuff is bad, but I dont want it to turn out like Slick50 which causes more harm than good...:confused:
I am at a loss for words so I will remain silent.
 
I just spoke to a GM tech. at the Chevy dealer near my house. He is aware of the ZDP problem and said that on a primarily stock flat tappet cam car, Lucas will be enough to compensate.I will not comment on any on modified because I don't have much experience with that and do not want to add to the confusion.

Lucas does not have any Zinc in it.
 
Lucas does not have any Zinc in it.
true
plus just because you switched to a roller cam and lifters doesn't account for

wrist pins
rocker arms
pushrods
older bearing surfaces- like we have

any other surface that is metal to metal contact we all like to forget about
 
GNocide and Wells,

I was in fact reading this whole thread from the start and appreciate all the work Mr. Clark has gone through with his product. I was just trying to point out that there are not only different types of ZDDPs (i.e. Aryl ZDDP, Alkyl ZDDP, etc.) that you may have to take into consideration in mixing with a particular brand of oil, but also you need the correct concentration based on the particular brand of oil your mixing it with. For example, oils with lower ash levels need more ZZDP to provide the same level of protection as a normal ash level oil mixed with ZDDP.

Also, I would be hesitant in putting any additives to oil. The oils are formulated from the manufacturer with a fine balance of additives (anti-foam, corrosion inhibitors, anti-wear, detergent / dispersants, oxidation inhibitors), and using this additive could upset the balance resulting in reduced performance. In other words, its true that todays oils have virtually no ZDDP left in them, but todays oils have been reformulated such that just simply adding this stuff to a modern oil may not be the equivalent to when this stuff was already incorporated in yesterdays oils right from the manufacturer (i.e. the manufacturer had the correct fine balance of particular components in their oil so they perform correctly). I guess at this point that until someone comes out with an oil that has the correct ZDDP level for our daily driven cars, we have no choice but to put this additive in and just hope for the best...

Im just thinking out loud and could be totally wrong in my assumptions, but this was just my thoughts....:redface:
 
GNocide and Wells,

I was in fact reading this whole thread from the start and appreciate all the work Mr. Clark has gone through with his product. I was just trying to point out that there are not only different types of ZDDPs (i.e. Aryl ZDDP, Alkyl ZDDP, etc.) that you may have to take into consideration in mixing with a particular brand of oil, but also you need the correct concentration based on the particular brand of oil your mixing it with. For example, oils with lower ash levels need more ZZDP to provide the same level of protection as a normal ash level oil mixed with ZDDP.

Also, I would be hesitant in putting any additives to oil. The oils are formulated from the manufacturer with a fine balance of additives (anti-foam, corrosion inhibitors, anti-wear, detergent / dispersants, oxidation inhibitors), and using this additive could upset the balance resulting in reduced performance. In other words, its true that todays oils have virtually no ZDDP left in them, but todays oils have been reformulated such that just simply adding this stuff to a modern oil may not be the equivalent to when this stuff was already incorporated in yesterdays oils right from the manufacturer (i.e. the manufacturer had the correct fine balance of particular components in their oil so they perform correctly). I guess at this point that until someone comes out with an oil that has the correct ZDDP level for our daily driven cars, we have no choice but to put this additive in and just hope for the best...

Im just thinking out loud and could be totally wrong in my assumptions, but this was just my thoughts....:redface:

well said and my apologies BASS..


it so happens sometimes on this subject we get a load of factual info and after about 15 pages or so of answered questions and debate someone always seems to post an article or make a comparison to part store oil additives and without any current test or results that was already covered.

you clearly are not that person
 
BASS:
My apologies also. As a general rule, I have never believed in using any oil or any other additives to our cars. However, in light of what has been happening over the last few years regarding premature cam failure/loss in our cars I have done a reverse in my beliefs regarding the oil industries, GM Engine Oil Supplement, and Richard Clark's additive ZDDP. The only reason that I have not bought any yet nor am I currently using it is I stocked up on GM Engine Oil Supplement a while back, and I need to deplete that stock first. I believe that out of all of the engine oil supplements available, Richard clark's was specially formulated and is sold in a container the appropriate size for our needs.
 
I just wanted to mention that the ZDDP molecule requires both the elements P and Zn... Measuring P without detecting Zn means that there is no ZDDP in the oil. Likewise, measuring Zn and not detecting any P means that the ZDDP molecule is not present.
 
IMO the number one reason for a cam failure is because of mismatched components or improper break in procedures. I've been running Mobil One in my turbo cars for the last 20 years or so. Not one oil related problem. Not one! I'll keep my opinion of ZDDP to myself!:mad:[/QUOTE]


Just out of curiosity, have you ever had a wiped out cam lobe on any LC2 motor while using Mobil 1 or any syn oil? Quite a few years back I built a new motor and broke it in with dino oil and EOS. Put a few hundred street miles on it, dropped the oil and filter, and for the first time switched over to Mobil 1. I bet you within less then 500 miles I had a 2 wiped cam lobes and a third that was on its way out the door as well:mad: I don't know if this was a co-ink-e-dink or what, but that left a bad taste in my mouth. Right after this happened I put a poll post out here asking people who had wiped out a cam lobe within a relatively short period of time to post what kind of oil they were using...dino or syn. If my memory serves me right over 75% of those that took the poll had been using syn oil....and quite a few people responded. Anyhow just thought I'd ask. I've been using Castrol 10-40 since 1991 when I bought my first GN and just recently switched over to Valvoline VR1 and some EOS.
 
Well after 9 pages I'm convinced if I ever have to build a TB engine it will a roller cam. ;)
 
Zddp...after Following These Posts ,it Reminded Me ,when I Was Attending A General Motors Tech Course In The Early 1970s (long Time Ago) That The Teacher Pulled Out A Can Of Eos And Told Us About The Product....the Main Performance Features He Noted Was Not Only Camshaft Lobe Wear But Also Piston Skirt Skuffing In New Engines ..so I Would Use Zddp Or Eos In My Roller Camed Engine With Every Engine..
 
correct

people think its just the cam-or switching to a roller is all thats necessary.

but they forget about wrist pins, push rods, rocker arms,etc-

our engine bearings are not the same as bearings in cars today- and the tolerances arnt even close to ours- much tighter

you could scratch our soft bearings with your fingernail- try that on one of todays cars- hard as nails
 
Never said I wouldn't use good oil or an additive. For me (again) if I were to build an engine I would use a roller for the issues mentioned, mostly the poorly designed cam/lifter relation on #3 and the high failure rate of flat tappets. The added benefit of a smaller cam putting out the same or better hp of a flat tappet that's larger is pretty cool too.
 
Funny you mention this cause the other day i was talking to a co-worker about oil minerals and the whole thing about modern oils not \needing in them what they use because of moder valve train. And he said he's always run Delo in his older cars and trucks with out issues.
 
Wow, this Chevron Delo 400 oil is very hard to find here in NJ (the 10W30 grade). I ordered the last case that Napa had in their warehouse :(

The Delo 400 that you can readily find everywhere in the stores (Walmart, Pep Boys, etc.) is the 15W40 (LE--Low Emissions) version, which is not good for our cars..
 
Richard did a test of diesel oils zddp levels

castrol was the closest to stock levels of zddp(it was still under) over shell and a few others.

that still doesn't make it correct for our motors thou
 
GNocide, the Delo 400 says it can be used in diesel and gasoline engines.. Based on all the reading ive been doing, you cant go wrong using the 10W30 :smile:
 
Ok, the Delo 400 (10W30) is impossible to find.

My next oil that I decided to use is the Valvoline VR-1 Racing oil (10W30, the street legal version that states its safe to use for street cars, part #VV205), as it seems to have a pretty good amount of ZDDP in it (it even states it on the bottle)..

Now, get this---I found an Accel oil today in walmart (10W40) thats actually an SF rated oil! It even states on the bottle that its specifically for cars made before 1988! Im sure this oil has PLENTY of zddp in it, and it was only $1.29 a quart! Would it be safe to use this 10W40 weight oil in our cars, and if so, would anybody trust this crappy Accel oil in the first place?? :confused: :confused:
 
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