L67 F-bird
- Thread starter MNcarbturbo
- Start date
MNcarbturbo
What's Fuel Injection?
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2009
It was discussed. In the end I made it work without moving it but it was a possibilitity. Would have had to change the oil pan, driveshaft and all the mounts so it was more work than it was worth.
usetaboost
SAY CAR RAMROD!!
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
screw the pullies and all that bs, i say turbo it. There's a guy here with a turbo 3800 camaro that's about ready to break into the 10s. A te44 on your car would be bad ass.
murphinator
Member
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2008
these m90 sc'ed engines are different in regards to boost #'s than what most turbo guys are used to .
to run something like a 2.8 pulley you would need headers , big catback ,cam,supporting mods , intercooler ( technically an after cooler as its sandwiched after sc and before lower intake with a liquid heat exchanger core in it cooled by a front mount liquid to air)larger fuel supply and injectors and of course a scanner/tuner and the ability to recognize and adjust for problems as you work your way down to the 2.8 pulley.
BTW you can machine the snout down to accept down to a 2.55 pulley
the m90 isnt going to put out a real 20 psi unless you weld your exhaust shut lol - its a small pump , I have had my problems with boost stacking giving pretty impressive boost numbers on a 3.4 pulley (14psi) but after adding some additional exhaust mods was able to get the boost numbers down and make more power without detonation
there are larger sc options out there such as the mp 112 , whipple ,and tvs but every build I follow they look complicated and expensive and unless one drops in your lap turbo would be a better way to go imo.
it all really depends on your goals and your budget between sc & turbo , if your looking for a 9 or 10 sec car commit to turbo now , 12's is easy on an m90 setup and plenty of persistent people have gone 11's on an m90 , being RWD you have a big traction advantage to get you there. m90 setup are pretty easy to buy upgrades and move towards your goals without ever having to drop one big chunk of coin.
to run something like a 2.8 pulley you would need headers , big catback ,cam,supporting mods , intercooler ( technically an after cooler as its sandwiched after sc and before lower intake with a liquid heat exchanger core in it cooled by a front mount liquid to air)larger fuel supply and injectors and of course a scanner/tuner and the ability to recognize and adjust for problems as you work your way down to the 2.8 pulley.
BTW you can machine the snout down to accept down to a 2.55 pulley
the m90 isnt going to put out a real 20 psi unless you weld your exhaust shut lol - its a small pump , I have had my problems with boost stacking giving pretty impressive boost numbers on a 3.4 pulley (14psi) but after adding some additional exhaust mods was able to get the boost numbers down and make more power without detonation
there are larger sc options out there such as the mp 112 , whipple ,and tvs but every build I follow they look complicated and expensive and unless one drops in your lap turbo would be a better way to go imo.
it all really depends on your goals and your budget between sc & turbo , if your looking for a 9 or 10 sec car commit to turbo now , 12's is easy on an m90 setup and plenty of persistent people have gone 11's on an m90 , being RWD you have a big traction advantage to get you there. m90 setup are pretty easy to buy upgrades and move towards your goals without ever having to drop one big chunk of coin.
MNcarbturbo
What's Fuel Injection?
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2009
Mid 12's is where I would like to be with this. I have to intention on going turbo yet. Ive spend enough time getting this to be SC to go turbo.
I would fully intend on getting a set of headers for this and possibly camming it. There is no real easy way to intercool it and Im more biased toward running a 3.0-3.2 on E85 than an intercooler and a 2.8". I could see this making only 4PSI with headers and a stock pulley.
I will be not changing anything on it this winter (maybe headers) but thats it.
I would fully intend on getting a set of headers for this and possibly camming it. There is no real easy way to intercool it and Im more biased toward running a 3.0-3.2 on E85 than an intercooler and a 2.8". I could see this making only 4PSI with headers and a stock pulley.
I will be not changing anything on it this winter (maybe headers) but thats it.
murphinator
Member
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2008
your plan is very good for hitting mid 12's on an m90 , cam & headers on e85 will get you down in that 3.0 pulley range with proper tuning , cant wait to see the updates
MNcarbturbo
What's Fuel Injection?
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2009
Redid the air intake so Im getting 70 degree air instead of 110 degree air. Also removed the last of the torque management and took it for a drive.
Also removed the last of the torque management and took it for a drive.
MNcarbturbo
What's Fuel Injection?
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2009
Pretty good actually. Exhaust doesnt hit the floor, there no bangins sounds, its quiet overall. The windows dont howl when its windy like my Olds and drives straight with no alignment. Drives like a 3800 car but has the power of an LT1 when I get on it. Has 235/60/16's on the back and you have to roll into it until you hit 20mph because otherwise it just blows the tires off. If Im going from a 15MPG roll and stomp on it it will spin. Overall not bad for a stock motor with just an exhaust and intake.
Only complaint is that the tires are not balanced so it has a slight shake at 72ish but it is great at 60.
Only complaint is that the tires are not balanced so it has a slight shake at 72ish but it is great at 60.
MNcarbturbo
What's Fuel Injection?
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2009
Well I drove out to the track today and had a good time. People I talked to were saying that the 60ft times were .2 slower than last weekend. No wind, low humidity, 70degrees ish.
Best parts of the day-
Absolutely smashed a new M6 BMW with a $3500 car
Did a short burnout and when I let off I heard a horrible racket and thought the driveshaft shattered, gave a little gas and car still moved, looked to right lane and saw a honda civic with a fart can doing a burnout, sounded like nails shaking around in a coffee can, scared the crap outta me when I first heard it.
Showed up and ran a 15.03 with a 2.48 60ft first time out. Spun a lot. Thought hey, if im a bit easier on the start next time I should hit 14's. Well no. Track got a bit less sticky or I got a heavy foot but the car spun pretty bad. The first run was the best quarter time of the day. Got a best 60ft of 2.35 and I ended up running a 15.20, feathered it just right to not spin entirely too bad but once I got 70ft out I spun. Last 3 passes were all the same so I got a lot better. All were really close to 15.15@93MPH.
It was a fight of getting it past 100ft without spinning, im going to need slicks when I go back next spring. 235's with a treadwear of 680 don't hook haha.
Best parts of the day-
Absolutely smashed a new M6 BMW with a $3500 car
Did a short burnout and when I let off I heard a horrible racket and thought the driveshaft shattered, gave a little gas and car still moved, looked to right lane and saw a honda civic with a fart can doing a burnout, sounded like nails shaking around in a coffee can, scared the crap outta me when I first heard it.
Showed up and ran a 15.03 with a 2.48 60ft first time out. Spun a lot. Thought hey, if im a bit easier on the start next time I should hit 14's. Well no. Track got a bit less sticky or I got a heavy foot but the car spun pretty bad. The first run was the best quarter time of the day. Got a best 60ft of 2.35 and I ended up running a 15.20, feathered it just right to not spin entirely too bad but once I got 70ft out I spun. Last 3 passes were all the same so I got a lot better. All were really close to 15.15@93MPH.
It was a fight of getting it past 100ft without spinning, im going to need slicks when I go back next spring. 235's with a treadwear of 680 don't hook haha.
usetaboost
SAY CAR RAMROD!!
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
Cool. When is the cutty going to the track?
murphinator
Member
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2008
thats super that you got it to the track ! I am surprised how poor the 60 foots were though - worse than a fwd l67 car on street tires I bet even a different brand of street tire will hook better but drag radials would be best . With the lighter engine in the front I would have expected a pretty good hook.... trap is pretty consistent with most stock l67 fwd cars.
you running colder than stock copper core plugs like ngk tr6 ? how about a 180* stat ?premium fuel ? a couple gallons of unleaded race fuel may kill some of the kr these cars tend to have stock also.
headers and a modular pulley system with a 3.5 pulley is where these engines really start to wake up - should be a 13 sec car with some 2.0 or better short times with the addition of those couple items
you running colder than stock copper core plugs like ngk tr6 ? how about a 180* stat ?premium fuel ? a couple gallons of unleaded race fuel may kill some of the kr these cars tend to have stock also.
headers and a modular pulley system with a 3.5 pulley is where these engines really start to wake up - should be a 13 sec car with some 2.0 or better short times with the addition of those couple items
MNcarbturbo
What's Fuel Injection?
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2009
The cutlass will be at the track hopefully next summer once it gets a decent rear end ratio.
I was also suprised that the car didnt hook. I honestly think it hooks better on the street than it did there. It was the track conditions though. There was a mid 9 second turbo capri there that was running 10.60's, guy with a vette usually cuts 1.9 60fts but could barely get a 2.15.
I am running autolite 104's, a 180 degree Tstat and 91. I had a few blips of KR through the range, mostly on the 1-2 shift from the engine torquing over and hitting something. Another issue I had was sitting in the staging lanes I had real high IAT's even with the fender intake. Found out the fans were pushing hot air through the hole in the fender and back fed the filter. Plugged the hole with some cardboard, but it still was higher than ambient temp. Next time Im going to put a small electric fan in the inner fender so it pushes outside air into the fender. When Im halfway down the track the IAT's are good, but they are high when Its launching. 110 ish.
I was also suprised that the car didnt hook. I honestly think it hooks better on the street than it did there. It was the track conditions though. There was a mid 9 second turbo capri there that was running 10.60's, guy with a vette usually cuts 1.9 60fts but could barely get a 2.15.
I am running autolite 104's, a 180 degree Tstat and 91. I had a few blips of KR through the range, mostly on the 1-2 shift from the engine torquing over and hitting something. Another issue I had was sitting in the staging lanes I had real high IAT's even with the fender intake. Found out the fans were pushing hot air through the hole in the fender and back fed the filter. Plugged the hole with some cardboard, but it still was higher than ambient temp. Next time Im going to put a small electric fan in the inner fender so it pushes outside air into the fender. When Im halfway down the track the IAT's are good, but they are high when Its launching. 110 ish.
Brad Zeidler
Member
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2001
It's tough getting it to hook on a vehicle with a 4L60E. That 1st gear is so low it's hard not to spin. There is a company that selld a different planetary set to change the gear ratio, of course it's around $1000 so it's not a cheap item but brings it down to a much better ratio that won't blow the tires off and when it shifts into 2nd you'll still be in the powerband. Remember, when the 700R4 was introduced in 1982(the same as the 4L60E) just not electronic they made the ratio 3.06-1 to help get the vehicle moving with the anemic 305. I need to find where I posted this before and I'll get a link for you.
This planetary has a 2.75-1 ratio.
This planetary has a 2.75-1 ratio.
The F body from 82 up had issues getting traction. Changing tire will help but it's that blasted torque are set up that gives traction issues. You need to do some reading up on how to make it work better. Glad to see you got some times with it and I know you can do better next time.
Brad Zeidler
Member
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2001
Here's the link. Actually it makes the 1st gear 2.84-1. Still way better than 3.06. Different gear ratio/planetaries for 700/ 4L60E - Minnesota GM Performance Association
MNcarbturbo
What's Fuel Injection?
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2009
It was nice today and I did take 2 videos of what it does best, spin. Thats about an 80% throttle launch and when it hooks I stomp on it, it does in fact shift into 2 while spinning. Then it hooks, bogs and shifts back into one.
Click on the pictures to get the video, I dont have youhose so im using my photobucket account for now.
Click on the pictures to get the video, I dont have youhose so im using my photobucket account for now.
usetaboost
SAY CAR RAMROD!!
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
check the torque arm mount on the trans and make sure that thing is TIGHT. ALso check that bar that goes from the body of the car to the rear end (side to side). IF that is loose it will mess the whole car up. I've had 7 fbodies. The 4th gen t/a hooked the best. A 245/50 tire would be much better. I had a pair of soft mastercrafts on my car with a posi and it wouldn't break loose unless I was at a dead stop.
Street Lethal
Tech Anarchist
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
Someone mentioned the tranny, you can't jump to the first gear in the 4L60 as being the problem for the poor sixty foot, as there are so many other variables. Look at the tires he's running, even the OP admits that he was running 235's with a treadwear of 680....
